Why Are Women’s Sex Health Products Still Taboo? With Christine Brown

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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

00:01.35

Doria Lavagnino:

Our guest today identifies as non-binary. I have asked ahead of time and I’m going to use the pronoun “they.” They were born hard of hearing and made a career teaching American Sign Language (ASL), but they are now an emerging entrepreneur in the feminine health space. Their product, the Kind Cup, is environmentally friendly and has been described as a more ergonomically correct menstrual product for women.

Christine Brown, welcome to SheVentures.

00:34.73

Christine Brown:

Thank you! I’m excited to be here.

00:38.35

Doria:

So for the benefit of listeners, can you recall the moment, or moments, as a child where you realized that you were on a unique journey from others in terms of both your hearing and your gender.

00:56.53

Christine:

Those had separate timelines, of course, for me. In terms of being hard of hearing, I was born hard of hearing but that wasn’t identified until I was almost 5. That was a label that was given to me by doctors, as it were, and that as an identity is something that’s evolved over time. Being a 5-year-old, being told that I’m hard of hearing, it didn’t make sense to me until my dad –– this is going to age me a little bit –– but just an old school radio, imagine in a big duffle bag suitcase, the big boombox, if you will, they had a dial on it and he showed me and he said,

“What I’m hearing is a 10, but you’re hearing it as a five.” And that was something that was just a concrete example of what I was being told my experience was. Granted that manifested in terms of my speech, which my parents and teachers and whatnot, they all attribute it to being a child and just having a cute lisp or just not saying and pronouncing the words fully because I had never heard the sounds before so I didn’t know they existed. After being identified as hard of hearing, I got hearing aids and did speech therapy; my mom worked very closely with me on that. Within six months of intensive –– every single day –– working on speech therapy and taking a class with a specialist, I was able to hear and identify the sounds for the first time and learn how to say them. So my experience being hard of hearing was that of, “Here’s hearing aids and speech therapy and now just continue on.” In school it was a few minor adjustments to try and make it work as best I could, and for the most part I think all my instructors were like, “Oh wow, you’re doing great, keep going.” 

But it wasn’t until I was in graduate school and I took a master’s in deaf studies with an emphasis in cultural studies at Gallaudet University in Washington D.C., the first deaf university in the world, it might actually still be the only, but in any case, it wasn’t until I was fully immersed in a signing environment that was completely accessible to me that I realized what the experience was for most of my hearing peers of “Wow, this is what having access is like.” I had never experienced that personally, which was incredible to be in that type of an environment, a learning environment and just socially and whatnot so that was an incredible experience for me.

04:02.40

Doria:

How was that different from what you had experienced before?

04:06.77

Christine:

Well okay, let me back up a second. My parents were told there’s American Sign Language and then there’s not, essentially. Because of being hard of hearing with my hearing aids and being able to function rather well in a hearing world, that was the path that was encouraged from the doctors. It wasn’t until I was in high school failing Japanese that I finally gave in and signed up for my first American Sign Language course, which was an incredibly eye-opening experience for me because I was, for the first time, being presented information on a silver platter. It wasn’t something that I was having to play over in my head again and again and switch out sounds and words until something made sense. It was just there. I didn’t have to do all of the extra steps and processes that I had innately just created for myself to figure things out. The information was just presented fully. Like, “Whoa hold on a second. This is so easy. Are you kidding me? This is incredible.” So that was a pivotal moment for me. At the time, though, American Sign Language was not as readily available as it is today. Of course, this is pre-technology. You can sign up for a course and learn it anywhere remotely at this point. But I had to wait two years before I could take ASL 2, I had to wait another two years before I could take ASL 3, and then at that point, I had gone ahead and applied for my master’s and was fully immersed, just jumped in and didn’t look back.

06:03.19

Doria:

I love that and I want to just ask you one question because I’m also hard of hearing and they are really trying to get me to go down the hearing aid path and I have resistance, not because I am bothered by the hearing aid, though they are very expensive, almost prohibitively so, it’s more about I’ve been told by people who wear them that it’s really hard to be in restaurant environments and it’s the exact same problem I have today which is that when there’s a lot of ambient noise, it’s really hard for me to understand what people are saying. I was just curious since you’ve had hearing aids for a longer period of time you’ve probably seen that technology evolve quite a bit.

06:52.39

Christine:

Oh absolutely. I went from the analog to the digital and that was a rough transition to say the least, borderline breakdowns even just because the technology of the digital hadn’t evolved to the point that I was used to. It was basically every eight to 10 years, hearing aids don’t usually last that long, but I took very good care of them, in fact, I’m definitely overdue for another pair because these are physically falling apart at this point, but I hate having to get a new pair because every time I do, the way that the technology evolves, I have to relearn everything even from my my own speech and how I sound. But even going from analog hearing aids to digital, I essentially had a breakdown after two days because I had no perception of depth. So I would be walking through a parking lot of a grocery store and frantically turning around thinking that a rogue cart was about to crash into me, and then turning around and there wasn’t anything there. Maybe there’s something way on the other side of the parking lot, but I literally thought I was about to have to push a cart off of ramming into me. Then walking through a farmers market, it seemed like all the vendors were right there, literally behind my ears, speaking into my ear from two inches away, and that is absolutely exhausting. Of course, the technology at this point, once you can get it adjusted and find the right fit, it makes a huge difference but, overall, in a restaurant environment and whatnot, I would 100 percent say, “Let’s go out and and be in a signing environment and just get together with all my deaf buddies and just be having a conversation in ASL,” because I can turn that off and be there, be present, communicate fully and enjoy it instead of all the ambient noise and whatnot that is quite taxing on someone who is hard of hearing or deaf or not not able to experience that in the same way that hearing people are experiencing it and used to.

09:23.50

Doria:

I really appreciate that explanation. Thank you and I didn’t mean to lump together gender identity and hard of hearing, it’s just they are two very concrete ways that you have identified and so that’s why I put them in the same question but I apologize if that was insensitive.

09:40.36

Christine:

No, interestingly enough, though, there is actually a little bit of a correlation because of my experience with –– and sorry that was a long-winded first answer –– to circle back to the second part of that question, because I had that foundation of being hard of hearing and navigating that and eventually finding my way to American Sign Language and deaf culture and realizing that my experiences weren’t just my own, of accepting that and just going “Well I guess this is the way it is,” but realizing that it was actually shared with an entire culture of of people globally. There’s deaf people and hard of hearing people everywhere and I had never met another deaf person. It was incredibly isolating going through that and then realizing, “Hold on, there’s a whole world and culture and language that’s rich and just incredible.” By the time I was in high school, actually having that foundation and experience and journey, it set the tone and made a huge difference for me in that journey of discovering and realizing and then accepting my own sexuality.

11:04.57

Doria:

Can you explain to listeners what “nonbinary” or “queer” means to you?

11:12.60

Christine:

In short, labels, as I said before in our conversation, in terms of pronouns and labels and whatnot, none of that actually really matters to me personally. I totally understand the importance of that for a lot of individuals and in the larger conversation and dialogue that’s happening. For me personally, it’s more important to have an underlying aspect of respect just between two people or between each other. That’s more important to me than pronouns and labels and whatnot. That said, my background for undergrad is critical social thought, so thinking deeply, and I absolutely love to challenge people’s notions of what they think they know and what, a lot of times, they assume. So in that respect, if I am presenting information in a way that doesn’t fit perfectly in a little box that can then be placed on a shelf and then they can carry on without taking a moment to think critically and to fully understand someone else or be able to potentially expand and broaden their understanding or their assumptions or whatever it is. If there’s an opportunity for a little bit of growth and perhaps a little bit more of a shared humanity through that experience and through that interaction, you bet I’m going to take it. I am going to gently nudge for that interaction and for that experience and for that exchange because at the end of the day I think we all benefit from having a little more of a human approach toward one another and having an educated respect that underlines all of our interactions. 

So for me personally, “queer” has been a label for simplicity’s sake, a label that has fit well for me in the sense that it’s not just a neat little box, and also in the sense that it is not identifying my own gender. It’s such a construct in the first place. I think of myself as a person and as a whole person with lived experiences and so much more ahead of me in terms of experiences to come and opportunities to continue to learn and grow. Part of it is also my own way of saying, “Hey you know what? I don’t want to box myself in.” That’s where that identity comes from and going back to gender as a construct, that’s where the nonbinary aspect comes from. I see myself as someone who, again, is a person and there’s so much that goes into shaping that and forming that. I don’t see it or experience it in the typical or expected gender constructs that are so often placed upon us and our society. 

14:37.93

Doria:

So, so true. You were teaching ASL for several years, correct? Then you, at some point, pivoted into becoming interested in designing menstrual cups but I don’t have the backstory as to how that pivot happened so I was hoping you could share that.

15:00.49

Christine:

I’ll give a little bit of a timeline here. I finished my master’s in deaf studies with an emphasis in cultural studies –– actually part of that was combining the identities and experiences of deaf, queer individuals and using deaf, queer individuals as a manifestation of deafhood, which is one of the prominent theories within deaf studies, which essentially is becoming a process of becoming. Just from the last few minutes of our conversation, I feel like in a way that really ties in a lot of my own personal identity, but it’s also something that’s shared with a lot of people in queer spaces in the deaf world as well. So in any case, I finished my master’s, I was working in architecture and design at Gallaudet University for a few months until I was presented with the opportunity to run and redesign and be fully immersed in a program abroad in Italy. I jumped into international education administration in the field of deaf studies and loved that opportunity of being immersed in the deaf world and different sign languages and creating a community in a space for incredible learning and growth. I absolutely love that. 

After redesigning their programs and making sure everything was optimizing the experience for students, professionals, and all of that, I then moved back — my home is in California — and got involved again with family business. So a lot of marketing, developing of specialty fruits. We grow cherimoyas and passion fruit and avocado and different subtropical fruits. So I got involved in developing and expanding out different markets, was doing a lot of local farmers’ markets and marketing and developing, got a patent for a new variety of cherimoya, the rincon variety, which is phenomenal, the best. Most people haven’t even had cherimoyas, which hopefully they’ll have that. It’s like ice cream in a fruit. It’s actually, according to the BBC, the second most healthy fruit that you can eat or, actually, the second most healthy food you can eat, almonds being the first in their study. But they’re incredible, but it’s a subtropical specialty group and very particular. In any case, doing a lot of marketing and developing on that side and teaching American Sign Language, I was doing that at a couple local colleges here, and teaching deaf culture and all of that. But at the end of the day to be honest, I was working seven days a week, I was still working remotely for the school in Italy and running their programs, and I had five or six different jobs, and at the end of the day I really wanted one big thing to focus all my energy towards and I certainly found it because it has been a lot of work but also incredibly rewarding. Being an entrepreneur is constant problem solving and figuring out “Okay, what is the best solution for this so that I can continue moving forward.” 

18:51.82

Doria:

Absolutely. So how did it start? How did the idea come to be?

19:03.43

Christine:

Well, over 10 years ago I, by chance, found out about menstrual cups. I went to an all-women’s college and you would have thought it would come about but it really was not part of the mainstream at that time yet. It was after grad school, by chance, I’d learned about menstrual cups, biked all over D.C. until I finally found one and bought it and tried it and just went, “Are you kidding? This is incredible. No more pads. No more tampons. This is it?” So I was an immediate convert. But that said, the way that I think, my critical social thought background, I just realized I had a running list of design elements and so my head is like, “This is great but it would be even better if,” and I just had a list that just kept getting longer and longer and longer. First of all, since I had bought this on a shelf I had convinced myself that the existing companies knew that it could be better and that they were working on those improvements to create a better experience for their customers, so I just was waiting for them to do that and for them to come out with the improvements. After a few years of waiting, I just couldn’t figure out what they were waiting for and so I went to Amazon, I started doing some online searches of different blogs and whatnot. I realized that, not only were there design improvements that I thought would be needed, it turned out there were hundreds –– if not thousands –– of other people who were using cups and they were having discomfort, they were having pain. It wasn’t just an inconvenience for individuals who really wanted to use and love this product. It just wasn’t working for their bodies. At the end of the day, so many of these people commenting kind of threw their hands up and said, “Well I guess there’s something wrong with me.” I’m reading this going, “No, nothing’s wrong with you. It’s not your body. You just need a product that’s better designed to work for you. It’s a design issue — not a ‘your body’ issue.”

21:17.76

Doria:

Yes, this is where I really get fired up because I was researching, firstly, this market is a nearly $20 billion market as of 2020 and, let’s be honest, tampons and maxi pads, which were all that was available when I was menstruating at least early in my life, that was it and I’m sure that they were likely created by a man, though I don’t know that for a fact. 

21:52.80

Christine:

I I believe so. Here’s the thing: Even if the first invention was a woman, guaranteed a man stepped in, took credit.

22:01.83

Doria:

Oh yeah, totally.

22:06.42

Christine:

I would love to actually find out the real history behind it, but that’s probably what happened, that’s my guess.

22:09.79

Doria:

Yes. History is always written by the people who are in charge, so it’s so hard to get the actual real story. So with this in mind, I have two daughters, one of them uses Thinks which was revolutionary at the time, and loves it. She basically just has her period in her underwear and you wash it and that’s it. They last for years and she’s been really happy with it. My other one is using what she believes to be, and I haven’t looked at the label closely, organically sourced maxi pads. So there’s definitely a change in consumer perception and behavior and I love the fact that women are owning and, to your point though, when you said people were saying “There’s something wrong with me.” That is something that I hear over and over again on this podcast, is the directing inward of, “Oh there must be something I’m doing wrong.” No maybe the fucking product is not right, how about that? You have this kind of architectural background so you’re, I , very visual and we’re able to come up with a different, or more ergonomically correct, and how so?

23:54.72

Christine:

It just made sense to me that it would be designed to fit. So part of my background when I was working in architecture and design at a deaf university was expanding theories around deaf space and deaf, blind space. So a lot of the architectural approaches were based and centered around people and how we inhabit space, how we utilize space, so that the areas, and furniture, and the tools around us were enhancing and supporting our experiences. So it was a very person-centric approach in designing, architecture, all of that stuff. That in a lot of ways matches really well and aligns really well with how I already think. I’m constantly in my head when I’m experiencing something and this is even just from when I was a child. I just think back and I wasn’t playing with the dollhouse: I was looking at how it was built, and how the different parts came together, and if it had moving parts I loved that. I loved things that moved, just looking at how it functioned. In my head I always would take things to the next step of “Could this be better?” That was just something that was part of my process and how I engaged with the world around me. That was something that I did with the cup. Experiencing it as a consumer and then thinking “How could this be better?” And theorizing in my head, “Well what if it was shaped differently? What if the stem, instead of being positioned in the middle so that when you’re sitting down you’re essentially poking yourself, what if it was angled?” 

25:56.40

Doria:

Your cervix right?

26:04.62

Christine:

The cup itself, you fold it, you insert it similar to a tampon, and then it opens, and after opening it creates a seal and the seal of the cup, properly placed below your cervix but above your pubic bone, it’ll just kind of nestle in and then collect your fluids. So unlike pads, tampons, it’s not going to absorb it but it just collects it. Because of that, you can go up to 12 hours, obviously it depends on your flow and it depends on the day, but most people can go all the way up to 12 hours before emptying it and removing it. So there’s a huge convenience factor there, which is incredible. You can go about your day, you basically can forget you’re on your period, which heck yeah, sign me up. It’s such a huge part of our life. Five days, give or take every month, it adds up to a huge amount of time. So to forget that you’re on your period and just be able to focus on everything else that you’re doing is incredible in terms of convenience. Then, second, because of the materials it doesn’t have that scratchy tampon, for lack of a better word, I’m just thinking, icky feeling. 

27:23.36

Doria:

What is it made out of?

27:39.24

Christine:

It’s a silicone cup. It’s 100 percent medical grade silicone. So it’s going to be very flexible, soft, totally hygienic, in that sense, you’re not having the icky feeling. It’s also something about pads and tampons that doesn’t feel great. Once you get the right cup that’s designed to work with your body and fit and all that stuff because of the shape, the unique shape that we have, so many of our customers can’t even feel it. That’s what you want in a product. You want something that’s going to support what you need to do in your day-to-day and not be burdened by it. To have that comfort is a game changer.

28:12.76

Doria:

I can’t even imagine that. I’m thinking back, I no longer menstruate but I was thinking back and pads basically felt like diapers, and tampons were really problematic because if you don’t insert properly they’re very noticeable and uncomfortable. So with the menstrual cup then, 12 hours then you take it out and then you just empty the fluids I guess in the toilet.

28:47.41

Christine:

Yeah. I always encourage, especially if you’re just starting out, a lot of times we forget, I think back to when I first learned how to use a tampon, it wasn’t intuitive. I didn’t immediately get it the first try, there was a little bit of a learning curve. There’s some trial and error. So I think that a lot of times people use that for years until they learn about cups or whatnot. Sometimes we forget that. So with cups, we’ve got tons of people where first they look at our instructions, we’ve got a really clear drawing, they just look through it, and then immediately it’s like, “Wow, that just works.” That’s what we’re going for. That’s awesome. But it’s totally normal if there’s a learning curve of taking one to three cycles to really get the hang of it. Everyone’s going to be a little different. During that I always encourage practicing in the shower, that way if you are removing your cup and you accidentally drop it, you’re not going to drop in the toilet. Or if you’re removing it and you get a little bit of menstrual fluid on you, you just rinse off. No big deal. You just gain your confidence and get the technique down and then you can do it anywhere without even thinking about it

30:05.60

Doria:

If you were traveling, how does one up keep the cup itself and how long do they typically last? And do you have different sizes for different women?

30:24.42

Christine:

Yes, so actually almost a year to the day, we came out with our size small. We launched our size regular and came out a year later with our size small and so between those two, if you think of a bell curve and just the majority of people, that works for almost everyone. Of course, you’re going to have a few outliers that might need what I would call a size large or a size extra small or something, but the majority of people are going to do exceptionally well between those two cup sizes. The reason why I say that is one because of customer feedback but two because of the shape. It is designed to fit the anatomical shape of our bodies. That right there takes so much of the guesswork out of sizing out. It just is designed to fit. So within that we do have the small and the regular, that’s just to optimize the experience that much more because we really are going for an exceptional product experience for our customers.

31:37.80

Doria:

When one buys –– it comes in a package –– do you get one cup?

31:44.45

Christine:

We give the option. So if they look at our sizing guide and go, “Yep, I know my body, I know I’m under 20,” or “I know that I tend to do better with a slightly smaller cup,” or if they just go through our checklist and they know what they need then they can just get that size, but we do also have the option of a duo pack. I’m someone who I actually do well with the duo cup. I can go either or and so for me I make that decision based on my body, how I’m feeling, what I am doing that day kind of thing. So I can do both.

32:22.25

Doria:

The retail is $40, is that right?

32:26.94

Christine:

For a single cup $39, yeah.

32:41.30

Doria:

When you think about the price, and I just want to get into the pink tax for a second because oh my goodness. So when you think about the price, it’s really negligible compared to what women and girls are spending, and many can’t afford to spend, on either maxi pads or tampons. So how long does it typically last for?

32:53.49

Christine:

So if you think about it, we’re using the top-quality materials: most sustainable, highest quality, everything throughout our entire product line. And so because of that, the cup, with proper care, can last up to 10 years. I mean honestly, it’s been known in the cup community that you can actually even go further than that but it really does depend on are you following the instructions, proper care, all of that. But they last for years. Some people are still going to want to just swap out to a new cup every year or two, and that’s totally fine. They’re still going to be saving a bunch of money because when you compare $39 to over $1,200 over a 10-year span, that’s how much you’re saving. It’s a huge amount of money.

33:42.33

Doria:

It’s unbelievable and I was looking before our podcast, I obviously know about the pink tax but I was just kind of curious about where we’re at. From what I can tell in 2019, 2020, and 2021, there was legislation passed. I know California doesn’t have a pink tax anymore –– awesome California, good for you.

34:09.62

Christine:

Temporarily, though, my understanding is that it was a temporary measure. It got extended and I’m hoping it becomes permanent if it hasn’t already, the last time I checked it still was not permanent. So we’re one of those oddball states where they didn’t just go ahead and get rid of it. 

34:28.92

Doria:

How many states, to your knowledge, because I think there are 30 states that still have some kind of pink tax if I’m not mistaken.

34:36.84

Christine:

That sounds about right, I would have to look. There’s some great nonprofit organizations and whatnot who are very active in this space. I believe period.org may be one of them.

34:49.54

Doria:

Yes, that is that is exactly one of the ones I was mentioned, and what is so unbelievable to me is the idea that year after year this goes to Congress and, for whatever reason, it’s not passing. And so for listeners who don’t know, the pink tax essentially says that things like tampons and maxi pads are considered nonessential and as a nonessential item –– can you imagine?

35:20.89

Christine:

It’s just mind-blowing.

35:26.47

Doria:

It truly is. As a nonessential item, it can be taxed. Whereas things such as erectile dysfunction medication, Viagra, is considered essential. Now it gives you a pretty clear indication of who is writing most of the laws and I really got on fire when I came across this I was like, “Oh my God what? This has got to change.” This is a thing, I don’t know how to even start the change. Having conversations, yes, but what do we do?

36:11.30

Christine:

I think there’s going to be some good guidance from some of those nonprofits who are actively out there fighting for those legislative changes, and I would venture to guess that contacting your representatives is going to be one of those steps. Having those conversations, absolutely, getting people fired up because it’s absolutely absurd. There’s countries where they go ahead and cover –– first of all, they don’t have something such as our pink tax, if you will –– but they also go ahead and cover and provide these products for free in their schools, in their different parts of their country and social systems. We don’t have anything close to that. We’re seeing that starting to happen in a few different counties, a few different cities, things like that where they will provide pads and tampons in some of the schools, which is fantastic. I think that we need more of that of course. But at the end of the day, there absolutely should not be a tax on top of it. That’s ridiculous.

37:26.80

Doria:

It’s ridiculous and I think it was period.org that I got this from: One in four school-age children in the U.S. can’t afford period products and so what do they do? Well their options are to use something that is not comfortable or they don’t go to school. Neither option is a good one and a little bit hard to believe that it’s happening in our country but it is, massively.

37:55.65

Christine:

Absolutely, I agree. I remember when I was a kid and first learned about periods. I was maybe 7, 8 and even at that time my thinking was, “Wait hold on. So girls and women have to pay every month for these things?” At that time my understanding was for the rest of their lives. But I was like, “Wait seriously? And guys don’t have to do this? That doesn’t seem fair.” That was my thinking as a kid when I first learned about periods, first of all. But, second, fast forward to when I had this idea of there needs to be a better product and all of that, I wasn’t seeing it in the marketplace. The ultimate reason why I jumped in and decided to start this, keep in mind I put all of my personal savings into this which, with teaching, it wasn’t a lot, but I decided this is something that this idea, this concept, it’s clearly needed and it’s not going away, it’s sticking with me. So what do I need to do? What’s it going to take? 

I just really sat down and decided, “Okay, let me figure this out.” I gave myself $5,000, this is my budget of my savings, let me see if I can just get ah a prototype, some kind of something to see if this can work. So I committed to that, I figured it out and ultimately after getting to that prototype stage of “This isn’t just a concept, I really think this can do something and make a difference.” I ultimately jumped in because I wanted to be able to concretely make a difference and I financially wasn’t in a position to just donate money to a nonprofit and whatnot. I wanted to be able to build something where I could then be able to give the product and be able to provide something that could truly make a difference. So I was teaching eight-hour days up until 2 or 3 in the morning working on this, and we launched with the product Friday afternoon. By Monday morning, I’d already taken in our first donation to our nonprofit partner to distribute within their U.S. network because that’s what I wanted. I wanted this to make a difference from the start for those who did not have access to a reliable safe period product because in this country or anywhere in the world that just is not something that should be a reality for people and yet here we are. So it was very important that from the start we were, in the way that we could, making a difference. I’m very excited. That’s our kind impact initiative. I’m very excited to see it continue to grow.

40:57.85

Doria:

That is wonderful and I’m happy to hear that and there’s so much work that can be done in the U.S. and globally on period poverty, and I’m glad there’s a growing awareness of it and that people are taking action. Feminine health products, do you have to go through any kind of FDA process? I would imagine that would be a nightmare if so.

41:23.17

Christine:

Talk about me wanting to pick something that could take all my energy and focus and lots of problem solving. This is a medical device. It’s a class two medical device and as part of that, there’s a lot of FDA quality management systems processes that go into it. Just imagine an obscene amount of paperwork. 

41:52.86

Doria:

Did you do it all yourself?

42:02.13

Christine:

Well you’re not allowed to do it all of yourself, which is a good thing because you need to have an independent person who’s skilled in this area to make sure that what I think makes sense in my head is seen outside of my head by someone who’s skilled and knowledgeable and can actually be like, “Yep this is good. Nope we need to do this,” and make sure that we’re doing everything to the highest standards. 

42:22.61

Doria:

How long does that process typically take or did it for you?

42:40.16

Christine:

Well I formed the LLC the day after my 30th birthday, and we’re coming up on the five-year mark for that. So the behind the scene legal side of setting things up and identifying the suppliers and contract manufacturers and all of that, that process, give or take –– and keep in mind I was working seven days a week so this wasn’t full time at that point –– that process took about two years and then one year for the design prototyping all of that and while I was doing the design prototyping and the behind the scenes, I was building out the FDA regulatory side of things, let’s say. That process was kind of all happening at the same time and it has to be completed before you release it to the public as a product.

43:28.33

Doria:

I can’t even imagine working full time going through a regulatory process in addition to this kind of stress and strain of being an entrepreneur.

43:45.32

Christine:

It was exhilarating and stressful and all of those things but at the end of the day, it’s one of those things where if you’re going to go all in, it’s got to be something that’s worth it, that’s going to make a difference and really create positive change and impact. And to me this was something that had that potential. 

44:05.40

Doria:

I know you launched a Kickstarter campaign at some point right?

44:09.80

Christine:

So tooling and manufacturing all of that stuff is not cheap. I mean part of [the reason] it’s not cheap is because of the standards that I set for us as a company, which I totally take responsibility for. I’m very proud of it because by choosing the highest quality, most sustainable, everything is sourced and manufactured within a two-hour driving radius of our headquarters here in Carpinteria, in Southern California, and that’s something where I wanted us to really create a positive impact on all levels. So in terms of the design, in terms of the product quality and sustainability, in terms of our creating access to this high-quality product to others who didn’t have access, in every area that I could think of I really wanted us to elevate and create a new standard. Doing so, of course, isn’t cheap, but that’s where the Kickstarter came in to get a little bit of outside support, in a way it was outside support, but it was also pre-orders for the size small cup.

45:27.20

Doria:

I also love the fact you said that everything is within a certain mile radius so supply chain issues probably haven’t affected you like they have other companies.

45:42.60

Christine:

Not in the same way. But interestingly we still got affected and that was because even though I had everything locally and I know all of our vendors and suppliers and manufactures, I want to be able to have that personal relationship with them and also part of it is to make sure that everything’s done to the standard levels ethically, all of that stuff. But because of a lot of other companies who didn’t have that made in the USA, local, all of that and their things were stuck out on cargo ships. My local suppliers and manufacturers suddenly were getting slammed and because of the timing of COVID and everything that was going on, there were a lot of acquisitions and mergers and whatnot within different aspects, like the printing, in that sector, in the silicone manufacturing sector. There were a lot of moving parts taking place from a business standpoint, from a supply chain standpoint, from a huge increase in demand suddenly. We definitely were impacted because of a lot of those variables.

47:01.92

Doria:

Talk to me a little bit about your traction. You’ve been around about five years right?

47:07.81

Christine:

Behind the scenes. We launched just over two years ago, though.

47:14.52

Doria:

Let’s say two years ago, from then to today, how has the journey been?

47:22.23

Christine:

Let’s put it this way, I had a conversation with a close advisor and family friend before I even started any of this. She had founded numerous companies and she had done it all, seen it all, just super smart, and I sat down and said, “What do you think? I’m thinking of doing this.” During that conversation, she shared that the definition of an overnight success is 10 years of hard work and I wrote that down, but me being me, I also in my mind, even though I wrote that down in my notes, in my mind I edited it to say five years of hard work because I set a goal for myself to do it in five. Now, keep in mind this was to build a medical device company and design an innovative, now patented, product from the ground up. I’ve had incredible support from family and friends and different professionals and consultants who are able to lend their expertise in different areas from regulatory to legal. Even though I was doing the majority of the work, I’ve been able to pull together a team strategically on the different things that we needed to achieve. 

My CAD guy who took the 2D drawings and made them into 3D machine readable files so that we can do the tooling. There are so many different elements involved in this. But at the end of the day, even if I didn’t know, “Wait what? What is regulatory stuff? Oh that’s a whole thing that’s going to cost a bunch of money and a lot of time and energy. Okay, who does that?” Then suddenly out of a meeting, a lunch meeting, here’s the guy. The universe, in so many moments, provided that next step and that next path forward. Overall, it’s been a huge amount of work, more than I anticipated. We’re about to come up on the five-year mark and within that we’ve launched a product, we’ve expanded the product line, we now have the cups in clear and in violet, we’ve completely redone the packaging so that it’s reflecting all that went into the design and the intention behind the materials and the quality. So there are so many steps involved in doing that and are we soaring and totally leading the pack? Not yet, that’s my goal. We’re working toward it. But I’m really, really fortunate and honestly humbled by the fact that we have the foundation that we have at this point and very proud of the product that we’ve been able to get out into the world.

50:22.43

Doria:

Absolutely. What I hear is that you’re very humble but you, along with your team, have created a product that has taken into account user feedback, which is essential, and has gone through the whole regulatory process, is patented, which is so important because you need to protect your intellectual property, and you’re ready to scale.

50:57.28

Christine:

That’s literally where we’re at right now. We finally got restocked after being sold out twice and all the supply chain stuff and we’re in a position now to get the brand out there and get the product out there because the thing that makes my day is when our customers reach out and go “That’s a game changer. That’s life changing. This is in the top five products that I’ve ever purchased.” That is really creating a tangible difference in their lives, in their day-to-day lives, and to be able to be a part of that is more than I could have hoped for. That’s what we set out to do and the fact that we’re able to do that is absolutely incredible.

51:49.50

Doria:

So, are you looking for venture capital with the right partner to scale? 

52:09.73

Christine:

Potentially. At this point I am open to conversations and exploring what’s getting to this next stage in order to truly position ourselves to get this product out there. I’m open to those conversations, absolutely.

52:25.93

Doria:

Okay, are you having them? 

52:29.40

Christine:

I’ve started them, yeah.

52:44.70

Doria:

Nice. Where can listeners find out more about your cup, The Kind Cup, and anything about you that you want to share?

52:46.42

Christine:

They can find out everything about Kind Cup, about us on our website, kindcup.com. We also are on Instagram @kind.cup and Facebook, if they’re on Facebook, most everything’s right there.

53:07.95

Doria:

I have really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you.

53:13.32

Christine:

Thank you so much. This was lovely.