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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

00:00.00

Doria Lavagnino:

00:00.72

Doria Lavagnino:

This woman graduated with a Ph.D. in social work at 27. Driven by the passion to serve and help others since the age of 14, then becoming a tenured professor who decided to pivot to entrepreneurship to make her difference. For more than a decade, she has been the president and chief consultant of her namesake company, KS Guillory Enterprises, where she’s a speaker and trainer. Her most requested topics: self-care, compassion, fatigue, and diversity. She’s consulted for both Fortune 500 companies and nonprofits, and she’s authored a few books. The most recent is called Look, Stop Hiding! How to Find Your Voice and Never Dim Your Light Again. Dr. Kristen Guillory, welcome to SheVentures. 

01:00.13

Kristen Guillory, Ph.D:

Thank you so much for having me.

01:17.36

Doria:

It is incredibly cool to have you on. One of the things that really resonated with me, and I almost opened with it but we’ll get into it when we talk about your book, is one of the pivots that you really talk about a lot in this new book is developing the courage to tell your story and find your voice — and helping others do the same. With that in mind, since that’s something that you developed over time, can you start by telling the listeners a little bit about yourself and a few memories from growing up.

01:40.77

Guillory:

I’m from Dallas, Texas. I’m the oldest of three siblings. I pretty much have always been someone who wants to help people, that’s pretty much always been me from maybe 12 years old. I go to college, the same thing is happening there, but I’m discovering that I don’t necessarily like or want to do all the things that “you’re supposed to do in college.” Like “Yes, you’re supposed to date because that’s what everybody is doing. Yes, you’re supposed to go to the parties because that’s what everybody’s doing.” Now, I’m not saying I did not have fun at the parties. I’m not saying that at all, but I look back and think, “What did I enjoy about them?” I enjoy being with my friends, I enjoyed dancing, but all the other things connected to partying, I didn’t really enjoy, but I don’t know if I knew that I had the right not to do that. You know what I mean? I know that I could, but this is just the normal thing that’s expected. The other thing that’s expected is you go to college, you go work, you get married, and all these things, and I am single, I believe that single is a blessing if you allow it to be. I think marriage is such a blessing as well, but I don’t think I even knew that the option to be single was a blessing until, honestly, late 20s because that’s what you’re supposed to do, you’re supposed to get married. 

I really have taken a path that is not the norm and what really is normal. So I got a Ph.D. really, really young and I started teaching college really young and wanted to put myself in the box of typical professors. So what I’ve discovered, even talking right now, I’ve discovered that I’ve tried to put myself in boxes that were never meant for me. “Oh, you’re supposed to want to be married at this age. Oh, you’re supposed to want to do that. Oh, you’re supposed to teach in this way,” but I am a very interactive speaker and instructor, so we dance in class, we rap in class, we do talk shows in class. I was trying to change that. So, fast forward a little bit: I left my professor position about seven years ago, a step in faith, and that was never supposed to be my path either. 

03:52.68

Doria:

We will get to that, don’t worry. I don’t want you to tell all your story in five minutes. I won’t have anything left.

03:59.71

Guillory:

So we did that and just part of my journey has been really just identifying who I am and what I’m really supposed to do. I recently relocated to South Florida to set my life up as a vacation. I love being an aunt. I have been through some hard things. But those are just some highlights of me. I’m in a place now where actually one of my clients pointed this out. I don’t even remember saying this, but I said something like, “If you’re not going to like me, you might as well not like the real me, okay?” So I think that it is just freeing to show up is who I am, and that’s what I really strive to do for anybody that I get the privilege to work with.

04:40.60

Doria:

I love that and the thing you said about being alone, I really think is so true about societal pressure, and I look at my parents who were married until I was about 6 years old, got divorced, and ended up being amicable a few years later, but ended up being very happy as people who lived alone who had a child, they chose to do that, and they got along magnificently as friends. The other part of it is that you use the word should. Whenever I say in my inner voice “should,” I’m like, “Should. Okay, according to who? What rule?” So tell us do you have any strong female role models or mentors from when you were growing up?

05:42.63

Guillory:

You know a couple. Definitely my grandmother who I called Mimi, who actually passed away about four years ago. I would say I got my love of education from my grandmother, and I’ll say I got my strong side that will not back down. My grandmother earned a master’s degree in the 70s when we know women and specifically, women of color, weren’t able to easily do that. My grandmother was just a part of so many things and just believed in that. So my grandmother definitely around education just standing up for stuff. My mom is one of the most selfless women I know, so she gives and serves with her heart. Then actually my aunt, it’s so funny I was like, “Am I supposed to be your child?” because my mom is really funny and amazing, but some personality traits, my aunt and I are very similar in that nature. What’s very interesting is actually Harriet Tubman is someone that I truly admired starting in the fourth grade because what I really appreciated about her was the notion of, “I am willing to take some risks to help people and go and help folks, but I’m going to come back and help other folks.” So I actually was Harriet Tubman in about three school plays back in the day by my choice, not people saying you need to do so, but I really admired so much of at least what we were told. We know some of our textbooks leave things out, but so much of what we were told. So I would say family and then I really appreciated a lot of what Harriet Tubman represented.

07:17.40

Doria:

When I was listening to you, I thought about when during one season of my podcast I would ask women at the end of the podcast, “If you could have lunch with one person, who would it be and why?” I only did it for about six or seven episodes because the answers I got, and they weren’t wrong, they were what people thought, were Oprah, Michelle Obama, Condoleezza Rice, notice all women of color, which I found really interesting, and then once I got Harriet Tubman but I was it was almost always Oprah, Oprah, Oprah, and yes Oprah’s great, but there are so many Black women that are doing amazing things.

08:03.40

Guillory:

There are, and I appreciate you bringing this up. There are, but the unfortunate thing is that there are only a few that are highlighted. So, the main thing that I do is speaker coaching those who want to monetize their message, be fully who they are on stage. And one of my clients has a goal to be the number-one speaker, and she’s amazing and she can do it and we were talking about lists that are out there of your top speakers. Here’s a list, and I’ve seen them and all of the lists are white men. If there is one woman of color, it will be Oprah. It may be Marianne Williamson. Right now, probably Brené Brown is getting on the list. But there are very few Black women that are on any of these lists. I’ve even had people say to me, “You are the only powerful woman speaker I know.” That is not a compliment to me. That is something where you’re not willing to do the work, or I can give you a list of amazing women and if you specifically want Black women I can do that as well, and so we identify, “Okay, here’s our one.” Oprah is amazing. I want to have lunch with her, too, but to your point, there are amazing folks out there and I think that that just kind of speaks to some of the issues that are still in the fabric of our society, where “Here’s the one.” No, there are a lot.

09:24.77

Doria:

Yes, and to your point about the history books earlier, history books are often written from the perspective of who is in charge at that moment. That is why women’s history, women of color history, so many people’s history has either been oral or has just been completely ignored, and it’s why I, like you, am so passionate about ensuring that stories are heard and preserved.

10:00.70

Guillory:

That’s awesome. Thank you for that. Thank you for your work and your heart. Really.

10:01.25

Doria:

Oh, thank you, please. So, you taught your first college course at 24, I learned a lot about you reading your book. While working on your Ph.D., you became a tenure track professor not long after that, which is really not that easy to do. What was most memorable to you about being a professor? 

10:24.79

Guillory:

I’ll give you one, and because of baby chuckle, I have to share this one. What I loved about being a professor was the connections with my students. I loved working with them after class. I probably have maybe 30 to 40 percent of my students are my social media friends. We’re still in contact, I’m actually running a challenge right now, a couple of my former college students are in the challenge, and so I love connecting with them and the authenticity and helping them identify self-care. Many of my students remember, “I remember when you told me it’s okay not to be okay. Do you remember when you told me that I needed to sit down and breathe?” I do and sometimes I don’t because they said, “You were the only professor that ever checked on me.” Again, I’m honored but why was I the only one? Again, I know I’m not the only one, shout-out to all the professors out there who do check on your students, but my students said this to me. 

So I’ll tell you a memorable moment. I was walking on campus and I love high heels, now I don’t really wear them too much anymore because when I speak I like to walk around and jog around the room. But anyway, I love a good high heel. I’m walking on campus, heading back to my office and a student who’s not one of my students stops me and she says, “Dr. Guillory, Dr. Guillory?” I said, “Yes ma’am.” She said, “Are you single?” I said, “Ah, yes.” She said, “Okay, good!” I said, “Why good?” She said, “because you’re happy and you wear heels.” I said “What?” “You’re happy and you wear high heels.” I did not understand what that meant and she just kept walking, I’m like I need you to come explain this.

What she meant was, and I learned this from some other students and even faculty on campus, was and on this particular campus, it was very rare that you saw a woman wearing high heels and it wasn’t to attract a man. Then it was very rare, apparently, to see a happy woman who wasn’t in a relationship. I learned that I apparently was a unicorn on this campus and a lot of students, especially young ladies on the campus will come and talk to me about things like that, so that was something that stood out. 

I’ll give you one final story that stands out. I was invited to speak at a real big convocation on campus, a couple thousand people, and they wanted me to give a 15-minute message. Well, I love music, I love dancing, I incorporate music and dancing in everything I do, including my talks. So, I was prepping with the team and I said, “I would really like to play a song,” and this was a campus that didn’t really play music just due to beliefs and things like that. I said, “Can I play this song?” They said, “Sure, what would you like to play?” It’s a song called “Uno Uno Seis” which is by two Christian hip-hop artists by the name of Lecrae and Andy Mineo. I came out to “Uno Uno Seis,” a real big beat drop. I brought students on stage. So, what was amazing, about half of the audience was with me and the other half was like, “What is happening?” I learned I was the first person to ever play music like that in this space and I loved it but also had to be okay with everybody not understanding or even everybody not liking it, and that’s totally okay. But yeah those stand out to me as I think about it.

13:48.63

Doria:

I love it, and I love what it says about your work, too. I’m thinking about looking at an audience, half the people dancing, half not. There’s so much code-switching that people have to do because to be your authentic self is not easy, to see you come out with such ease on stage, I bet every single one of them remembers it.

14:23.13

Guillory:

I bet so, I do. To your point, when you’ve never seen something like that. I was talking to a few of my friends and clients, as I mentioned I’m leading this challenge this week, and I forget that when you first meet me, or you first see me if you don’t know really anything about me, it’s a little shock because when you think about webinars or you think about online classes, they’re awesome, but generally there’s a slideshow on screen and the person’s talking. Well, my virtual experiences, so when you enter from the waiting room from Zoom, there is music playing, we are dancing, we do dance breaks, and I have humor and so it’s a little different for people to see. As I like to say, I think one of the easiest and hardest things for a moment is to just be exactly who we are. It’s easy, but it’s hard because, to your point, am I going to be accepted? I’m no longer code-switching. When I’m exactly who I am that means I’m leaving myself open to the potential judgment of my authentic self, which potentially could hurt a little bit more. Or if you’re walking in the freedom of who you are, it doesn’t matter because it’s the freedom and everybody doesn’t have to get it.

15:41.47

Doria:

Exactly. In your book, this really resonated with me, you were talking about, I believe this was when you were first teaching classes and you brought a number of people’s stories to be a part of whatever it was that you were teaching, and then at some point, you were asked to speak about yourself. It was very uncomfortable at that period of time. You allowed yourself to be authentic and vulnerable, it was challenging. How did you walk yourself through that moment because it is challenging?

16:30.40

Guillory:

It is. I love that I love the question. So it was actually my official first invitation to speak at this high school. They wanted me to talk about me. I was tutoring a teacher, and she said, “Are you in school?” I said, “I am.” “What are you working on?” I said, “I’m working on my Ph.D.” “How old are you?” At that time I was 25, and she said, “Oh my gosh, our students need to meet you. You are a young Black woman working on a Ph.D., they just need to meet you.” Another teacher came and said the same thing and they just said we want our students to meet you. I heard that but I took that as “Okay, I need to put together the most amazing presentation where I highlight friends in my life who have overcome these huge hurdles and this is what they’re doing.” I didn’t even think about including me. I didn’t even think about talking about me because I honestly did not think that I had a worthwhile story, I didn’t think that I had a story that was gut-wrenching and had the qualities and elements when you think about this moving story. It turned into my most popular presentation for a while. 

So I was invited to speak on another campus, and they just wanted me to talk about me, and that was very uncomfortable. But the next time when I was invited, I think I just said, “You know what? Let me just go and be me.” It took some steps. It took some thinking about it because I had to recognize that I didn’t even respond to the request, they wanted me to talk about me and I didn’t, and I just said, “Okay, let’s go try it out. Let me just go and be me.” I call it the talk pg 6 so let me just go be me and talk about that I was in AP classes, and that I was in the band, and that I believed in abstinence, and that I had some pressure from my girlfriends. I just talked about me. I had a dean who was a hater when I was working on my Ph.D., and so I just shared me. I didn’t expect the response that I got the day after. I got a lot of emails from the women who were in the audience thanking me, but more than that they started telling me personal things about themselves. They started saying, “I’ve never met anybody or seen anybody like you. Thank you. I have thought about suicide.” Or somebody else said, “My stepdad abused me when I was younger.” I’ll be honest, when they were saying this to me I went, “What? I don’t understand.” It took me, honestly, it took me about two days to understand why they shared. They shared because I was authentic and they felt safe with me and I was real. And honestly that was such a pivotal moment for me as a speaker and person, just realizing, “Oh, so we don’t have to have the same story to connect.” People connect with authenticity, people connect with heart, and that was a game-changer for me.

19:31.33

Doria:

I’m soaking that in right now, I love it because I’m a journalist, as you know, and when people ask to interview me, it makes me very uncomfortable. I am so much more comfortable having someone else tell the story much like what you were talking about earlier on in your life. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve become more comfortable with telling my story but it is difficult. So, thank you for being honest about that. You pivoted to entrepreneurship and running your own consulting business. You’ve spoken in front of more than 70,000 people over the past decade, probably more because you’re modest. It’s probably like a million but you just don’t want to say how many lives you’ve touched. What was the catalyst for this pivot from professor to entrepreneur?

20:33.50

Guillory:

The catalyst was what I didn’t want. Honestly, the catalyst was at the end of the semester, so it was the end of my full year teaching at this new university. I woke up, my best friend and I were on this kind of self-care trip and had this cabin. I was on the top floor, she was on the bottom, and I walked out on the balcony and, honestly, I heard the Lord say, “It’s time.” I was like, “Nope, no, it’s not. We’re going for a hike.” I heard the same thing the next day, “It’s time,” and I knew what He meant. My faith is very important to me, and I knew what it was, it’s time to leave the professor position. It didn’t make sense at all because I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. I like steady money, okay? I like steady checks that we’re gonna get every two weeks. That’s not my story. My best friend is an attorney and she left this amazing attorney position and I was literally bragging about her in some of my motivational talks. I was like, “Y’all, my best friend is walking in platinum faith. She left her job. Get it, friend!” I’m talking about my friend, and I was like, “This is not my story, this is yours.”

So that was May. I didn’t fully make the decision until July to do it. I felt like the Lord was like “I told you to go, just trust me.” I was like, this is hard because I like to be in control, I like to know what’s going to happen, and there really is no part of that on this journey. My entrepreneurial journey wound up being harder than it really should have been. I am somebody who believes in leaning into ease e-a-s-e, and being open to ease. We normalize hard, entrepreneurship is hard, relationships are hard. So I entered entrepreneurship with that thought thinking, “This is going to be hard,” while also wanting to be in control. There were things that I tried to force on my journey that weren’t supposed to happen and, honestly, I was still holding onto my professor position because I really liked being called a professor. It’s prestigious, “Hello I’m a professor, hello,” you know. I had to begin slowly surrendering that. It was uncomfortable, I was worried about what people would think of my journey. “You just left this tenure track position?” By the way, that was created for me, the position was created for me, and they were offering me all these perks and things, and I just truly had to say, “Okay Lord, I trust you. I’m gonna surrender and be open to the direction.” 

Honestly, when I decided to release what I needed to release and just be open to the direction, and I’m not talking about magic and I’m not talking about overnight, things just literally started being easier. So it was 2018, literally four years ago this month, that I had the lowest amount of money in my bank account since I was 18 years old. I was very uncomfortable and I wanted to quit. I said some choice words to the Lord, I don’t even curse like that. I accepted financial help from my mom. The blessing is that my mom was able to help me. Contracts fell through, this check didn’t come, and I just kind of surrendered and said, “Okay, here we go.” Just two weeks ago, one of my clients said, “I know your story and I’m so grateful you didn’t give up because I wouldn’t be who I am today if you had.” I hear that all the time and so that was the pivot and I had to get out of my own way and just kind of trust the path even if I didn’t understand or know all the steps to get there.

24:26.96

Doria:

When you were talking about some of the mistakes that you made, what were they specifically? You said need for control.

24:32.56

Guillory:

I don’t know if I would call this a mistake, this was just a blind spot, this was just an opportunity that I didn’t even know. So one is, honestly, I truly wish that I would have invested in coaching or had a consistent mentor that I checked in with. It’s not that I don’t have mentors, but I wish that I would have done that, because when I left the job I had great support, but I also didn’t have support from some people I expected. I put too many expectations on my support system and that’s not fair to them. They don’t have to understand my journey because it may be weird and so I really do wish I would have invested in coaching. I wish I would have been consistent in counseling, just to go there to work through some thoughts. Honestly, something I like to say to this day is “Surrender the ‘when’ and the ‘how.’ Surrender when things might happen, when I want them to happen, or how. I know that I’m going to do this but surrender the date. It may not happen at that time. It may happen sooner. It may happen later. Some other practical things would be just to not try to rush stuff. Just sit back, put the plan together, and then figure out, pray through, meditate through what the next path is going to be. That really was it. Oh, and I wish I would have had fun. I wish I would have attached fun because one of my themes for this year is fun. One of my affirmations is “I, Kristen, am the party and the expert.” So I wish I would have leaned into having fun, because it’s supposed to be fun. If you’re not having fun with your own business some of the time, then, honestly, what’s the point? We need to have fun with what we do, I believe in that.

26:25.92

Doria:

I’m a person of faith as well, and I do believe that messages come through different people and I feel like what you just said — it’s not that I am that narcissistic that it was meant for me — but I honestly feel that was just my higher power talking to me through you right now, and I’m sure to many of our listeners, so thank you. One of the epiphanies I’ve had recently, and I’m going to generalize here, but there are a lot of word patterns that specifically I’ve noticed women use that are apologetic. “Just” is one. “I just want you to consider,” or “It might be the case,” or  “I could be completely off here but,” or “I am sure your point of view is right but have you considered,” that kind of thing, always pussyfooting around. Why are we conditioned to apologize so much and once we begin to have the awareness of it, how do we stop? This is a plea.

27:40.33

Guillory:

So why are we conditioned? Honestly, I don’t know why we’re conditioned. We just are. Whether it is the traditional woman definitions and stances that have been ingrained into society and what we’re supposed to be. A woman’s supposed to be demure, and you should be seen and not heard, and you have to always be humble, you don’t want to come across as bragging. But “bragging” became this curse word. We don’t want to come across as bragging, and something I’d like to say is if it’s a fact, it’s not bragging. I earned a Ph.D. at 27. That’s not bragging, that’s a fact. Now, I have the right to brag if I want to because I worked. So if I want to say, “Y’all I got my Ph.D. at 27, let’s get it!” I have the right to do that. But I think it’s been so much of things that typically men would do and they’re seen as strength and amazing things, when a woman does it it’s considered you’re bragging. You’re a B-word, you’re all this stuff. It’s not ladylike, you should not do that. It’s toxic and it’s harmed us. I’ve been there, we both I’m sure have been there, and it is something that 1) causes us to dim our light and 2) causes us not to walk, like I like to say, in the fullness and freedom of who we are. 

I’ve been there where I had an interview and they said, “Can you tell us about your student evaluations as a professor?” I said, “Well, not to brag, but I am often rated as a top professor.” The woman who interviewed me, I’m so grateful she did this, she said, “Now, why did you say ‘not to brag’? You don’t have to say that.” 

I’ve done things like that before and so it’s just one of those we’ve been taught so then, to your point, how do we change it? I think when we recognize I apologize for taking up space, I apologize for who I am, I apologize for my voice too much. When you recognize it and then you decide “I don’t want to apologize for that anymore.” Then you start leaning into it. You start leaning into “I’m not going to apologize.” So whether that is creating an affirmation saying, “I no longer apologize for being who I am, I show up fully in every space where I am.” Whatever that is. It takes time but as long as we’re gentle with ourselves and recognize “What I have to do is realize when I show up fully, when I walk in my gifts, when I just show up fully, it doesn’t just benefit me.” First and foremost, it does benefit me, I feel better, it is good for my mental health, it’s good for my mental wellness. When we hide who we are, when we pretend to be other people, that causes mental strain. It really does. It causes us to either regret, or be exhausted, or it causes stress, it causes anxiety. So first and foremost showing up is who we are and not apologizing is just freedom, and it’s beneficial for me first. The other area where it’s beneficial, it benefits the people I’m honored to support.

I don’t know of any of my clients who were like, “I’d love it if you dimmed your light and you apologized. I don’t want you to be confident, Dr. Guillory.” It’s not that I’m not human and I don’t have self-esteem things sometimes and I don’t have my moments, but it benefits my clients, I cannot tell you how many people. That’s why it goes back to when you just show up as who we are that blesses people without us even trying. I can’t tell you how many people have come up to me or messaged me and said, “After seeing you or after meeting you, I’ve now decided to do this.” I was like, “What?” You just saw me do that and it wasn’t me teaching anything, it might have been me saying that I relocated to South Florida to set my life up as a vacation, and that’s inspired so many women and they message me all the time. I’m like, “I wasn’t trying to tell y’all to do it,” I’m just being myself.

31:56.63

Doria:

Are there fears that you hear that seem unique to female entrepreneurs?

32:12.92

Guillory:

This may not be necessarily female entrepreneurs but I will say the majority of my clients are women, probably 87 percent of my clients are women. I’ll tell you the fears that I do hear. A few of them are “What if people don’t agree with what I’m doing? What if they don’t agree? What if they don’t understand?” So that’s one. “What if it doesn’t work out?” I hear that very often. “What if it doesn’t work out?” And I’ll come back and say, “What if it does.” Another fear is “What if people won’t be interested in what I’m offering? What if my story is not enough?” I hear that and I don’t believe in dismissing feelings, I believe that our thoughts are real, I believe that we have the right to have them. As Dr. Caroline Leaf who’s a neuroscientist would say, I also believe in weakening the toxicity of some of these thoughts. If I am saying, “What if nobody will hire me?” I like to say, “If you think it, then it shall be.” So if you’re saying “What if nobody will hire me,” my response is “Then they won’t.” Now, how do we change that and say, “I am moving in the direction of believing people will hire me.” 

Another fear or it may not even be a fear, it’s just a blind spot. I’m really big on “Show up as who you are.” I need you to show up as your authentic self. I have had clients say to me, “I’ll be honest with you, Dr. Guillory, I don’t know who that is anymore. I need to rediscover who she is. If I show up as myself, what if it goes back to people don’t like it?” Another fear is that I don’t deserve to be paid. I help them to understand you deserve to be paid for your high-level expertise, you can monetize what it is you do. “I don’t believe I deserve it.” So struggling with that and, this is a whole other conversation, but all the things attached to money. “You shouldn’t talk about money.” “You shouldn’t want to make money; you should serve.” I like to say you can serve and make money at the same time, they can coexist and there’s nothing wrong with that. 

But we’ve learned some toxic things where “No, you should be okay with anything.” No, I was okay with anything, hold up, no, there’s an abundance of opportunities out there. We get into that to help address those fears, to address the fear of “I do want to earn this amount of money, I do want to be on that stage, but I’m afraid of whatever may happen. I’m afraid of success, I’m afraid of what might happen afterward.” Whether it’s imposter syndrome, as Gay Hendricks would say the “upper limit moment,” as I like to say “tension,” whatever it is, and we just kind of work through that.

35:09.73

Doria:

The other day I was looking up some statistics for a podcast, and I came across this thing from the Bureau of Labor Statistics about Mother’s Day. And we all know about unpaid labor and it’s something that as I’m getting older, and I feel like I was talking about it as a college student and I’m talking about it at 51, and I don’t feel that there’s been a lot of change, and I’m trying to figure out how do I make that change happen. But the thing was this press release from the Bureau of Labor Statistics that said something along the lines of “Happy Mother’s Day! Look at all the work and the dollar value of the jobs that your mother does and be sure to thank her.” I thought that is so effed up. Yes of course thank your mother, but why don’t we look at the bigger problem that the woman is doing all of these things. 

36:13.47

Guillory:

We’ll have to do it in part two. I will come back if we want to do that. Here’s the thing, shout-out to all the dads and men doing what they need to do and showing up. Do your thing, fellas. Thank you for doing what you’re supposed to do. What are we doing having parades for dads being dads? Now, moms, I was just talking about this with a friend of mine, and again, it’s unintentional but just the standards and expectations are very off-balance. It’ll be “Oh my gosh yay I’m so grateful that my husband is watching the kids today so I can rest.” What?

37:00.86

Doria:

But if you were doing it, not you but her, no one would thank her, it would be expected.

37:09.61

Guillory:

It would be expected and so actually one of my friends and coaches, I love this statement, she said, “Let’s not make that the ceiling, let’s make that the floor.” So let’s make that “Yes I need to rest, so of course, the husband is going to watch the kids.” That is what’s supposed to happen but unfortunately, over the years women have done it all. So again shout-out to the men and dads who step up and do all the things. But oh my gosh. It’s just expected. Sometimes I know there’s guilt, and I know there’s guilt where “Self-care is selfish, I can’t step away,” and so to all the moms and grandmothers and aunts and caregivers a shout-out to you, and you do deserve to rest, you do deserve to take a moment to breathe. I honor you. What you do is priceless and you are absolutely changing lives. I have to just say this real quick because you brought up moms and to the women who are a mom but the partner isn’t in the house are called a single mom, but I don’t like labeling things like that. But to you, you absolutely are raising amazing children. If you’re specifically raising boys, because there’s a lot of stuff out there that says, “You can’t be a Mama-raised man.” Absolutely yes, you can. You better raise your children in the most beautiful way and so I honor you and thank you for all that you do.

38:28.89

Doria:

To back that up, by bringing up unwaged labor I have the greatest respect for women who are able to stay at home and are giving their lives and their time to others. It’s really a big sacrifice and that’s all I can really say about that.

38:54.59

Guillory:

It’s huge. My sister calls herself the COO of her household. They have 4 boys, she homeschooled, she now has slowly opened up, started some of her fitness businesses and things like that, but that is more than a full time. Of course, the husband is involved, shoutout to my brother-in-law. But my sister is like, “Yeah I’m the COO of this household.” So yes, whatever capacity, do your thing, ladies. Shout-out. 

39:21.45

Doria:

In your book, you talk about boxes. What I love about this book, by the way, is it’s not gigantic, so you don’t feel like it’s going to take me so long to read. It’s a great size and it’s a workbook. You describe your teaching style as getting the person involved, you’re doing it in the book! I loved that. So one of the things you talk about are boxes that we put ourselves in, that other people put us in, we’ve discussed a few on the podcast so far. Are boxes obvious or subtle? I would like to know as a woman of color, have you been put in boxes?

40:12.83

Guillory:

I’m sure I have. I’m probably not aware of some of the boxes I’ve been put in, but I’m sure I have. I know that early on working on my Ph.D., my first kind of dissertation chair, what I learned was this particular chair would always identify the new student of color, as people call the “token” person. I learned that they were like “Oh, she selected you.” She deselected me when I allowed my personality to fly. I was not going to be a yes person, I was going to be who I was. So that was something I was selected for, I’m sure that there have been other spaces where “Oh, we need a speaker of color. She’s awesome and checks that off as well.” Because I am very often the only Black woman at some events, and I’m very honored to do so. But I do want to lift as I climb and make more spaces for other women of color to be in these spaces as well. I do advocate behind the scenes for speakers. So I will absolutely question and say “Hey, you have not one Black woman on this list and there are 30 speakers. What’s going on?” “Oh, we don’t know any.” Try again. So that’s a box. I’ve been put in plenty of boxes, I’ve been put in boxes of the single thing. “Are you happy?” Yes, I am. The assumption that I’m not happy, I’ve been put in that box a little bit, not so much anymore because people know me. I’ve been put in boxes of a particular style. I think it’s just assumptions. So if you see me on paper and say “She’s going to come in and teach or speak,” I break through that box as soon as you see me do my thing. I’m sure I’ve been put in boxes in a place where I live. I live in a place where the majority of the people here are much older than me. Like “You live here?” “Mmhm.” I’ve been putting boxes around my age, definitely around gender, and then at times, I’m sure around race as well.

42:25.44

Doria:

For people that are trying to dim our light, when one is an entrepreneur, you’re typically working long hours, hopefully having fun, but it can be very tiring, especially when you’re initially trying to validate a product idea or even if the services yourself validating that. How do you recommend entrepreneurs keep their light shining? I guess what I’m thinking of it, and it might be slightly different than what you were referring to before, but it’s, for example, when women are going to see venture capital and you are listening to a venture capitalist who tells you five different things about what you’re pitching and how he or she sees it. You do say in your book constructive criticism is fine, but don’t lose sight of what you’re going after. But it’s hard. What do you recommend?

43:33.88

Guillory:

The two areas about not dimming light and then when we get feedback or input on what we’re doing. So I’ll start with the dimming light. One way not to dim it honestly is please rest. You’ve got to rest. Rest is essential. I’ve heard people say, “I’ll sleep when I die.” That’s so stupid, that is so dumb. No offense anybody, but that’s ridiculous. That is some of the toxic stuff that we believe that has caused us to be sick, that has caused us to be in the hospital, that’s caused these things. Y’all, you need sleep.

44:14.74

Doria:

Yeah, there’s no shame in nine hours.

44:28.59

Guillory:

I need my eight. You have the right to rest. We have deadlines, we have to get things done, but when we’re tired, when we’re not good, that project or that item that we need to finish, if we were refreshed we could probably get it done in one hour, but when we’re exhausted it’s going to take 10 hours. So, one way not to dim that light is number one to rest. Number two is to recognize that you have high-level experience and expertise and an amazing story that you can monetize. You absolutely can do that. The other part for me, not dimming is please don’t go on the journey by yourself. You don’t have to do this by yourself. I don’t mean you have to involve 80 people and I’m not even talking about hiring a lot of staff. It may be, “I can’t afford that,” but is there an entrepreneurship group you can get in? Is there a business bestie that you can have? Is there a coaching program you can get in? Because sometimes, when we’re on this journey we know we want to do it but we’re not fully secure in all of the stuff, we’re a little uncertain, or we are a little anxious. When you’re in a space with people who are going to affirm you and uplift you and keep you going, that is priceless. I’ll be honest when I first started getting coaching for myself, I was offered like, “Hey, I have this group coaching program if you want to be in it.” I was like, “I don’t know if I want to do group coaching, I’m a little ahead of the game, I want one on one.” I did it and my coaches are amazing. When I started running group coaching experiences, I will be 100 percent honest with you, I was jealous of my cohort. I was jealous of them because of the camaraderie, the support. I was like “I want group coaching. I want to be in this.” I saw the impact that it made. Just recently some of my clients have said that one of the priceless elements is the support and the new friendship and family that’s created. I’d say that’s another way, just to make sure you have community. Whatever it is, whether it’s coaching or another program or friend, whatever that is. 

So, on to the feedback. Oh my goodness, such a great question. I remember speaking at this really big event for a really big company and I got a standing ovation. There were like 500 people in the space and there was a line of people who wanted to buy my book and all this great stuff. The next day I’m working out on the machine at the gym and I check my email. I don’t know why I did that at the gym, don’t do that y’all, just work out, don’t check email. So I checked my LinkedIn account and there was a message from a woman who said, “I was in the audience yesterday, I can tell you’re so passionate about this. You’re so awesome. But if I can offer you these things,” and she offered me some feedback. She said, “One, I’m not really sure of the dancing, that may be something you want to consider,” she said, “two, you may want to remove the two claps.” I do something called two claps. So I’ll say, “Two claps, good job,” and you say “Good job” and clap. “Maybe too many pictures,” and something else. I read that and took it as “Oh my gosh, my talk was horrible.” I stopped working out, I went to my car, sat there and just read it and reread it and was like, “It was horrible.” I’m not blaming her at all. She had the right to email me. But I sat there, and I took it as my talk was horrible. I dismissed that standing ovation. I dismissed the 70 to 80 people in line to buy my book. People have the right to share. We have the right to read it and take what we believe fits. So after I let that sink in I’m like, “Girl, please, I’m always gonna dance.” So put that to the side. We’re always gonna do my claps, I’m always gonna include pictures of my nephews, and there was other feedback she gave that I did say, “You know what, I can’t apply that.” 

When we know that this is our passion, it’s what we’re supposed to do, there’s one thing to say, “You know what that feedback will enhance it, that feedback will take it to the next level, that feedback will be better.” As opposed to “That feedback is having me change everything.” I don’t think that’s in alignment. You all have the right to say no. If we’ve ever seen Shark Tank, the folks will walk away from deals. They’ll say, “No, I know the worth of my business, I’m willing to walk away from that.” I think, especially as entrepreneurs, we have got to know the why of our business, and the why can’t just be money. Yes, we want to make money but the why has to be “Is it transformative? Is it change? Is it education? What is it?” Then once we’re connected to the why and what we’re doing, then we’re open to “Okay, I’m cool with that feedback. No not gonna do that. But thank you.” But we have to be so secure in what we’re doing, why we’re doing it, and remembering that we have the ability to do so. No, you may not be in the place where the venture capitalist has the amount of money and stuff like that, but you’ve got to be so secure and know, but also open to feedback that’ll make it better.

49:29.73

Doria:

Absolutely, I love how you framed it. Because you talked about having fun, I wanted to ask you a question from your book. You ask readers to list five cool things about themselves. So I was hoping you would list five cool things that you love about you.

49:49.70

Guillory:

Oh, come on, five cool things, I love it. So let’s see, I love to dance. Is that a surprise? I know, I know, that is a shock, I know. I love to dance and I’ll share this real quick about the dance. Where I am, I love to walk and I’m starting to jog again, and I walk on the beach and all that kind of stuff. So when I listen to my music, I’m in my zone, I am in my zone, and when my song comes on, I want to dance. There have been some moments, and no more, but there were some moments at the beginning where I would hear my song and I would kind of dance but I would cover it up a little bit because I know people may be watching me. Guess what? Oh, I don’t care anymore. Please, I know my neighbors, I know they see me, I’ve had friends say, “Do you see how many people watch you?” I’m like “No, because I’m in my zone, I’m jamming!” So anyway, I love to dance. 

A second thing about me is one of my favorite groups from back in the day was Boyz II Men. I have been to 13 Boyz II Men concerts, and I’m actually going to New York for a concert to see them and like about seven other artists in a couple of weeks. 

50:58.95

Doria:

How cool!

51:05.96

Guillory:

I think I went to so many concerts in a row they started recognizing me. Another cool thing is at one point I actually managed comedians, NFL alum, and hip-hop artists. That was really fun but I knew I wasn’t meant to be a manager. I started having gospel artists calling me and saying, “Hey we hear you’re a manager,” and what I would say to them is “I’m happy to have a conversation to get you prepared for a real manager.” That was never anything I wanted to do. 

So pre-COVID, I solo traveled a lot. I’ve been to Colombia about five times, I was looking to move there, I started looking at work visas, I was going to be living in Colombia, I was planning a trip to Colombia. 

51:50.26

Doria:

What attracted you to Colombia?

51:59.80

Guillory:

My best friend and I planned a trip called our friendiversary trip. We’ve been friends, at this point like 20 years, but at that point, I was like, “Hey girl we need to celebrate our friendship. You pick where you want to go,” and she said Colombia. I was like, “Colombia? I do not want to go there, but okay friend I trust you.” So we go, and probably day three of the trip, prior to the trip I was planning to do six weeks in Greece, I was working with things I had stuff all rolled out, but day three I was like, “This is where I’m coming for my first extended solo international trip.” It was a combination of things. It was the people, it was the environment, it was the pace. It was just a feeling. I was like “I really like this,” and so I decided that my first extended trip was going to be Colombia. 

I had an amazing time there, about five weeks for that one trip, and I had an amazing time every day. I would never generalize a group of people or a country by any means, but I met some awesome people, the folks I encountered were never in a rush and seemingly never worried. Not to say that they’re not, but I just remember being like “Why are we always so worried?” Even some of my colleagues and friends in Colombia would say “Yeah, you Americans are always rushed, you’re always so busy,” and it was everything. So I went back. I will be back, and I actually have a couple of friends there, and they’re like “Come back anytime you want.” So yeah, Colombia was where I was going to move. I visited so much my nephews said, “Do you love Colombia more than us?” No guys. No, no, no.

I think five is for me the coolest thing about me is my nephews. I love being an aunt. That is my favorite title in life. It really is my favorite title in life, being an aunt.

53:58.23

Doria:

I think that’s terrific, not that you need my validation. We’re coming toward the end of our show, so what advice would you give your younger self? That’s my last question.

54:16.37

Guillory:

I would tell my younger self a couple of things. I would tell myself, “Your value is not in a number on the scale.” I would tell my younger self, “When people compliment you and tell you that you’re great, believe them, and accept it. I would tell my younger self, “Don’t ever apologize for your gifts, your laughter, your dancing, your love of being single, and just show up.” That is what I would tell the younger Kristen.

54:54.57

Doria:

I am so honored to speak to the present Kristen today, and if you could tell listeners where they can learn more about you and find your books which we will be sharing on social media with this episode.

55:11.13

Guillory:

Oh awesome, awesome! Well, thank you so much. This was great and we’re definitely going to have to stay in contact afterward. I’m gonna find you on social media.

55:18.17

Doria:

Yes, oh yeah, we could do a little dancing.

55:28.13

Guillory:

To find me on social media it’s @DrKristenGuillory so basically my name all together. D-r-k-r-i-s-t-n-g-u-i-l-l-o-r-y and that is Instagram, you can find me on all the platforms. Then how to find the book, you’ll be able to find that in the link of that Instagram bio. I would love to connect, and if you all specifically connect with me from this show, please feel free to slide in my DMs, say what’s up, slide in my DMs.

55:53.86

Doria:

Love it. It has been so much fun speaking to you today. Thank you.

55:59.75

Guillory:

Thank you! This has been great. I appreciate you. And thank you for your platform and everything that you are doing. The next time you have the opportunity to be interviewed, please share all about you because you know that you have the ability and the right to show up as well. You are gifted at interviewing, but you also have an amazing story I’m quite sure, so bless the people with that.

56:22.44

Doria:

That is beautiful. I am writing a book actually. 

56:26.13

Guillory:

Congratulations.

56:35.20

Doria:

So, everyone who’s listening: It may not be done for five years, but it will come out.