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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

00:00.00

Doria Lavagnino:

She is a former Army commander and intelligence officer who served two tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, feeling a call to serve after 9/11. She published an award-winning memoir. She’s an entrepreneur, a mother, a wife, and a proud veteran. I had the pleasure of speaking with her two years ago on SheVentures, and I remember thinking her authentic leadership experience would make her a formidable political candidate if she ever decided to run for office. And in late 2021, she heard her calling and is here today as a Republican Senate hopeful from North Carolina. Marjorie Eastman, welcome to SheVentures.

00:44.72

Marjorie Eastman:

Thank you, Doria. I’m so happy to be on the podcast again, and I have been looking forward to catching up. So, thank you so much for asking me to come back.

00:53.95

Doria:

Absolutely, and I don’t think I said this the first time, and I want to thank you for your service to our country.

01:02.82

Marjorie:

Thank you so much for saying that and, just to your listeners, I think it’s really important that that’s said right now because the fall of Afghanistan hurt all of us. It was painful for all of us. But for veterans from the Vietnam generation to our post–9/11 generation, there’s a unique pain in all of that. So just saying thank you to veterans is very meaningful right now. So thank you for saying that.

01:33.19

Doria:

Absolutely. SheVentures is a podcast about pivots, and in your life you’ve had many pivots. Let’s talk about your latest one into politics: Was there a defining moment when you decided you wanted to enter the race?

01:47.74

Marjorie:

Yes, Afghanistan. It was last August, it was the fall of Afghanistan. Even trying to describe it now, we all feel it. It was disastrous. It was mortifying. And I would add it was reckless and avoidable, and it was that moment where I just knew, it was what I describe as my second 9/11 moment. My first time that it was so crystal clear that I needed to do something big and serve and find a way to help was after 9/11. Our country was attacked then, and that’s when I joined the military and when you fast forward to where we’re at today and all the crises that we’re surrounded with and just seeing what happened in Afghanistan. I mean, Doria, you know that Afghanistan it’s personal to me. I served on the ground there. I was a commander there. I held the hands of little Afghan girls that we helped get back to school. We lost people there that I knew. Just how that happened was completely my tipping point, and that’s why I’m running for the U.S. Senate now.

02:59.85

Doria:

I’m thinking about Americans who haven’t served and whose lives they may feel are not impacted by Afghanistan in any way. What would you say to them?

03:14.80

Marjorie:

Oh my goodness absolutely, because I mean how we lead in the world affects how we are safe and thriving here at home. We’ve never looked so weak in the world because what happened with that withdrawal and how reckless it was. It makes it look like we don’t keep our promises, that we’re not strong. I love Ronald Reagan’s strength through peace. It’s true. It works. We’re going to see a lot more of “Look what’s going on with Ukraine,” and an aggressive China, and there are so many other reasons. We haven’t even begun to see the impact and the ripple effects of this disastrous fall from Afghanistan.

04:07.30

Doria:

I understand that the race that you are in is crowded. And one of the ways that you’re defining yourself, and it’s so true, is that you’re not a career politician. Primaries are coming up, I believe, about 50 percent, as I understand it, of Republicans are undecided. Why should those undecided people cast a vote for Marjorie Eastman?

04:34.20

Marjorie:

I would say first and foremost if you feel like me, if you are tired of career politicians, then I am right there with you, and I’m a voter too. And you’re absolutely right. I’m running in a crowded field of career politicians who are looking for a promotion and they want to stay there. I took a pledge for term limits. I am a political outsider. And the other part of it, too, is I have a perspective and a background that’s totally different. I am the only veteran and the only mom that’s running in this U.S. Senate race that has a little kid jumping on and off of a bus. So I think that that matters, and as we’ve traveled across the state we’re seeing it, people know that that matters.

05:24.81

Doria:

It so much does, and it gives a unique perspective to life that I think others don’t have. I’ve never seen our country so divided, and I am a mom of two teenage girls and it saddens me because I just see the world that they are coming into, the America that they’re coming into. How do you think we got here and more importantly, what will it take for us to move forward collectively?

05:53.68

Marjorie:

I’m right there with you and it breaks my heart. It’s not who we are. We’re the United States of America; we do big tough things. Whether it’s the military, or in business, or through nonprofits I’ve helped. We are from all walks of life but we come together and we fix things and we do big things. There’s a Ronald Reagan quote that I love and I think it goes something like this “If we agree 80 percent of the time that doesn’t make you 20 percent a traitor.” I love that aspect, it’s like we can disagree and not be disagreeable. We used to do that really well. And we still did big things and great things. It makes me think of a book I read recently. It’s called A Time to Build by Yuval Levin, and he talks about how democracy is not a fight to the death. It’s supposed to be a tug of war where you go back and forth and you get stronger and better and you get closer to where exactly you need to be. And that’s the aspect. We’ve got to change our mindset. Somewhere along the way, someone started to say it was a fight to the death and it’s not. It is absolutely not.

07:22.50

Doria:

Yeah, fight to the death or if you don’t agree with certain people you’re just canceled and that’s that.

07:28.95

Marjorie:

Yeah, that’s right, it’s weird, it’s strange. That’s not how it is. I learned in the military, this was actually when I was kind of leaning in front of my skis as a young lieutenant and I was trying to do a little too much once, and I had a major that said “You’ve got to realize you’ve got a sphere of influence, so stay in your sphere.” But the lesson to the takeaway is true. We all do have a sphere of influence, not necessarily like you need to stay in your sphere, but you have to recognize we all can make a difference and so this vitriol, this divisiveness, and all of this, we can change it right where we are one little conversation at a time.

08:15.55

Doria:

I could not agree with you more. I’m going to transition to something that I don’t know that all listeners know about you but you’ve talked about publicly. You believe America is leaning towards socialism, and one area where I often hear about socialized versus capitalism dialectic is in healthcare. There are a lot of young people, it just seems to be mostly young people who hold this view could be older people too, I don’t know, who truly believe that how it is in Canada or how it is in Europe with socialized medicine is the way to go. Your son was diagnosed with cancer when he was 6 months old and thankfully survived. You had firsthand experience of dealing with her healthcare system. Given that we’re now living in one of the worst healthcare crises in the last 100 years, how do you think our government is doing — if you could give the government a grade from A to F?

09:27.35

Marjorie:

Oh goodness if I could give our government a grade from A to F? Not an A, definitely not. It’s funny, my little boy, his report card is either 1, 2, 3, or 4, and it’s like “where did the A through F go?” That’s so clean and clear, right? He was just showing me his report card and he’s like “Look Mom! I’ve got this number and that number,” and I’m like “What does that mean? Where’s the key?” You know it’s just so true. We’re not an A, I wouldn’t say we’re an F, but I used to have a friend in college, and he would always joke, “C’s get degrees” and he didn’t really push and aspire for anything higher than a C because he was just having a good time in college.

That’s a silly, kind of anecdote but that’s not us and these are serious issues and serious questions. We strive to be number one because that’s America. We shouldn’t have the attitude of “Okay, well this is how it can be or should be,” or “This is the way it’s always been.” You know like you said my little boy, he beat cancer when he was little and thank god we had amazing doctors and we had the choice, we could go and find who we needed. And that was also, if you kind of rewind in the discovery of the fact that he even had cancer in the first place, I was able to switch my doctors. I was in disagreement with one of my doctors when I was pregnant and that choice and going to a better doctor, this is all the concept of why competition and free markets are so wonderful. And they have brought more people out of poverty than social socialism ever has.

11:27.17

Doria:

How would you characterize your experience as a consumer of American healthcare in regard to your son and to yourself?

11:38.34

Marjorie:

Well, it’s interesting because for my son, he has had wonderful care and I couldn’t be more grateful, but I know that that’s not the same experience for everyone. And for myself, my goodness, it’s been hit and miss all over along the way. And now as I’m starting to get to use and know the VA a little bit better, and I’m starting to have more conversations about the VA. What’s the most important part of when you have this question is, “Are we starting from the right place of where we want to tackle the problem?” Do we start with the right assumption of saying “Hey free markets, free enterprise, the way we do things well, are we doing it the best practices? That’s where we need to start with that I think, that end state, that goal in mind.

12:33.31

Doria:

You’re a Washington outsider, which is very appealing I think to many Americans who are just so tired of the bickering and the not getting anything done, the politics as usual. But one thing I remember very clearly about you, because I listened to our interview last night, because you were in the military maybe you were like this naturally, you were also a tactician, you’re very practical and pragmatic. So being an outsider, what would the first 90 days of Marjorie Eastman as senator look like?

13:24.43

Marjorie:

Oh, I love this question. You are the first person to ask me this question. I love this and I have to say, somewhat similarly I’ve been asked a lot about term limits. So for me, it’s not just in the first 90 days, obviously, it would be a listening tour. As a good leader, you listen, you pay attention right away and always throughout, but especially at the beginning. But it has to be about stepping out and being strong and bold and sincere and my first speech on the Senate floor is going to be not just why, but why not? Why not fix the systematic problems and be brave and bold and why not figure out how to get term limits passed because we have a problem in our government when people have been there 40 years. If you look at it, it’s on both sides of the aisle, but look at it with President Biden: This year’s his 50th anniversary. It’s 1972 is when he started this whole “I’m gonna be a career politician.” Fifty years, that’s nuts!

14:36.23

Doria:

That is nuts, I was 2 years old!

14:39.83

Marjorie:

Oh my gosh, exactly. It gives you such perspective, and the founders never intended it that way. One of my favorite founders, obviously, is George Washington, a veteran. He set the precedent. He said “Look two terms and I’m out,” and he knew the importance of this. The idea was people are supposed to go and be part of government in Washington when they’re kind of in the middle of their life. They can bring some value, they have experience and perspective. It’s actually a service. It’s a sacrifice: They go help and then they go home and they go do something else. Now people go there forever, and we’ve got to fix that so that’s going to be part of something that will always be part of who I am, definitely part of my first 90 days.

15:32.68

Doria:

It keeps people accountable too because they know they have a certain amount of time to affect change. I have two more questions because I know we don’t have a lot of time. I wanted to ask this because I’m thinking of myself. As a political independent, I have trouble embracing the Republican Party because of Donald Trump, and I wondered if you had three adjectives to describe, and you may not feel that way by the way, Donald Trump’s presidency, what would they be and what would you say to independents like myself who are like, “Oh gosh, if that’s what being a Republican is, no thank you.”

16:23.85

Marjorie:

I have to say this: Being a Republican, being a Democrat, these are labels and it comes down to what’s your identity. I’m an American, I’m always an American first. Yes, I am running as a Republican because I am Republican based off of the philosophical fundamentals of where the party is, and it’s the values of free markets, free enterprise, smaller government, strong defense. That’s why I’m so surely footed there, and I hear you, I hear you with what you’re describing. I have been on the campaign trail now for several months, and several people have brought up this question. A lot of people feel politically homeless for a variety of reasons. 

17:16.89

Doria:

I do, exactly. I feel like a political refugee.

17:33.83

Marjorie:

Yes and I have to tell you, within North Carolina, it roughly breaks out this way, and this is very similar across the country, there are more people that are registered unaffiliated, bottom line, and Independent. But in North Carolina, it’s about 30, 30, 30 for Republican, Democrat, and Unaffiliated. What’s so powerful is, we are a semi-op primary, so if you are an Unaffiliated Independent, you can choose if you want to vote in the Republican or the Democratic primary. That is one of the ways, talk about political innovation, that we need to fix a lot of our problems in our country because people are right there and I understand, I get it, I relate it, and I am actively seeking people who are Independent Unaffiliated because guess what? The larger part of my life I was registered Unaffiliated because of the tradition of the military. A lot of military members, and especially as officers, we have been registered and we registered Unaffiliated because we want to make sure the military remains apolitical because it needs to be apolitical, and so I’m right there with you.

18:32.29

Doria:

I’m gonna respect that and not ask anything more about the person that governed our country for the last four years. I did want to just ask about Gen Z very briefly because I have two Gen Z daughters, I think your son is Gen Z, yes? 

18:52.15

Marjorie:

I think so too. Yeah.

19:07.40

Doria:

I live in Brooklyn. I realize it’s very liberal here, but it seems like a very politically woke generation. They have never seen war, though, in the way that you and many veterans have, or even as I have as a New Yorker when I was here and saw what happened to the World Trade Center on 9/11. Do you think that this generation has what it takes to lead with what you called last time “grit and grace”?

19:33.25

Marjorie:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, 100 percent, and I totally believe that our children are going to make things better. We as their parents are the Gen Xers, the Millennials. It’s about always lifting while you rise, and I think that that’s what every generation does. We turn around and we share our wisdom, we teach, we love, we take care of each other. They see it through our example. I am 100 percent confident that your daughters, my son, they are watching right now, they see what’s going on, and they’re going to help fix things. We need to keep being the example for them and that’s a big reason also why I’m running for the U.S. Senate. My little boy needs to see that when you have an opportunity to step up and fix something and serve, then don’t hesitate because we all have a purpose, and we need to make sure that we all step up to that front line that’s in our lives. 

20:39.88

Doria:

Your son must be so proud of you.

Marjorie:

He’s amazing. He calls me Mommy Senator already. He’s so cute.

20:47.29

Doria:

See you’re elected! Last question, you seem to have really lived a life where you have done so much and went after your goals. Do you have any advice that you would like to give to your younger self?

21:08.24

Marjorie:

You’re right, I’ve always just tried and gone after life and lived. I would just say probably to my younger self, “Don’t try to plan it all out too much. Make sure you’re holding onto your faith just as much because I believe that God sets up your path in ways that you could never set up on your own, and just have peace in that. Because I’ve seen it throughout my life looking back at the people that came into my life, the moments in time that you couldn’t have changed on your own and it’s pretty amazing.

21:55.81

Doria:

You are pretty amazing and it’s been an honor to have you on today and it was nice to catch up. Nick Bradfield, shout out to Nick Bradfield and Bunker Labs. Can you tell us when the Primary is and where can listeners find out more about you?

22:16.98

Marjorie:

Thank you for asking that. So I’d love to answer when the primary is but we don’t exactly know right now with the state. Right now on the books, it’s supposedly May 17 but it looks like it’s going to move to June 7. The court and the state they’re still figuring that out. TBD on that, but it’s coming. For finding me, please I would love to connect on LinkedIn. We have a Facebook page, Instagram. It’s just my name: Marjorie K. Eastman. Then our website with all of our information is marjoriekeastman.com.

22:53.10

Doria:

When you become senator, will you come back on SheVentures?

22:56.60

Marjorie:

Oh, you will be my first podcast interview. 

23:01.85

Doria:

Yes. Thank you so much.

Marjorie:

Thank you, Doria. I appreciate you so much.