Women of Color Founders Reveal Epic Struggles and Wins

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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

Intro:

Doria Lavagnino: These two female tech founders were once on SheVentures this time last year, and we get to speak to them again! In their first episode, they covered launching their startup in the Midwest through Techstars accelerator. They told us how they went through raising an oversubscribed round of $1.1 million for their work app called, then, QuickHire. Since then they’ve been very busy! This year, the Kansas sisters have rebranded their company to WorkTorch and raised an additional $2.2 million in venture funding. Here to tell us about the past 12 months are sisters Deborah Gladney and Angela Muhwezi-Hall. Welcome, again!

Angela Muhwezi-Hall: Thank you so much for having us! We’re glad to be back.

Deborah Gladney: We’re excited!

Reflecting Back on the Last Year

Doria: And what a busy 12 months it has been, for both of you! I listened to just the end of our conversation last year. I had asked both of you what your goals were for the coming year. I don’t remember who said it but one of you did say to bring awareness to women and minorities being underfunded and to recognize the milestones and barriers. To give context to listeners who don’t know, women of color tech founders raise only less than half a percent of venture capital. Women, overall, are not much better, with 2.3 percent. How have you been able to handle the milestones and the barriers? What have they been for you this year? Let’s start with Angela.

Angela: Yeah, well, thanks again for having us! We’re thrilled to be back and even just reflecting on this past year. It’s really nice to do so. I’ll tell you, it has definitely been a challenge. Raising capital is already hard enough and, as you said, the statistics of being Black women are harder than our counterparts. But, we were raising during a time when people were unsure if we were going to go into a recession as a country. 

Previously in the round that we did last year, we found that a lot more VCs were willing to take risks, willing to hear us out. Things like that. We’re coming off of a time when there were a lot of VCs that had a diversity and inclusion emphasis or things that they wanted to go after. Our first round of funding was oversubscribed. We felt that people were willing to hear us out this time around. VCs were tight with their pockets already, because they were unsure what the future held. For us, it made it so much harder to raise what people may have to have as far as their monthly revenues, their user base, and the tech; that they were requiring for people. It was almost as if they were expecting us to be at a level with MRR [monthly recurring revenue] with our tech, with our user base. We just had to give above and beyond and show we’re on the right path — probably more than what people were used to at our stage. We were lucky that during our first round, we were able to connect with so many great funds and investors. A lot of them did choose to follow on in this next round. Then, also, with the new VC that we were able to connect with — they truly believed in us. They truly understood our vision, but it was so much harder than ever. I probably can tell you more about that because what we were facing as a country was so uncertain.

Doria: Yeah, absolutely. Deborah, what do you want to add?

Deborah: Yeah, I mean she hit the nail on the head just with the macroeconomic factors at play. People were already being more conservative. It’s really interesting because it kind of shows people’s true underlying bias. What they saw and what they felt as risky investments were minorities, were women. Those were the ones that really suffered. Now, overall, yes, investing as a whole peeled back a little bit last year. It was extremely hard, but yeah as Angela was saying, it’s almost like we — and this is nothing new — had to show up with twice as much to have twice as less. The valuation that we went with was extremely unfair. Honestly, a lot of people thought it was a deal, especially for the amount of traction that we had acquired in such a little amount of time. It’s not like we were a charity. We have a business, a real growing business. Nevertheless, when we had that goal of saying we wanted to shine a spotlight on it, it meant that we also had to continue that. We couldn’t give up either. The harder we worked, the more milestones we were able to achieve, and the more awareness we were able to bring. Also, the more that we are changing the face of what entrepreneurship looks like in this country. That, to me, is the important thing. 

Doria: Yeah, 100 percent. Not that you need my validation, but I couldn’t agree with you more. I think it’s incredible what the two of you have achieved. 

I was wondering and, also, it’s interesting to me, because while I understand that we’re in a recession or recession territory, I’m not really quite clear where we are. I don’t know if anyone is. I thought it may be because you had already received venture capital, that it might be easier the second time around, but you’re finding that that was not so [true].

Deborah: Exactly, yeah, we thought the same thing, honestly. It’s not just that. We were actually really proud of our traction. We had four times our revenue. We had acquired some really big brands. We were just really excited because we knew that we had a great business story to tell in just a short amount of time. I will say that it wasn’t easy, but to Angela’s point, I think we were able to do it because we had raised it before. Investors were already invested, and they were able to have a front-row seat at the progress they made, the progress we had made. Had we not had them to anchor us, I don’t think this round would have come together at all. 

Doria: Okay, that’s interesting. So it did help?

Deborah: It did help, in a certain way.

Doria: Today, how do you or don’t you — I don’t want to assume— face discrimination, as women of color tech founders?

Angela: I think that going into it, this was our first tech company. For me, personally, it was my first time going into entrepreneurship. Deborah had started businesses before, so I was extremely new to the whole experience. I don’t think I was expecting to face discrimination. I wasn’t expecting to feel the biases, whether they were overt or covert. However they came across, I wasn’t ready for it. 

I was shocked by some of the experiences that we had. Now that I know what to expect, it makes it 10 times easier, especially going through this with a co-founder — and that co-founder happens to be another woman. She happens to also be my sister. We can have real frank conversations and debrief after meetings that didn’t feel right. Asking each other, “how can we approach this,” sets our expectations, knowing what we have gone through previously. This time around, unfortunately, I had to prepare myself mentally for the biases that were going to come our way. 

That first time around, I was just shocked left and right that this was what we were experiencing. In some of those situations, we just had to embrace ourselves. We’re continuing to have to do so. Now that we’re already looking toward that series and what’s coming next for us, we already know, “alright, we’re going to have to make sure our benchmarks are even higher than our counterparts and higher than what people are expecting,” — to make sure that there is no one saying that we can’t do things just because we’re minorities. 

On Being Women and Minorities

Deborah: Yeah and it’s interesting, because, as she said, a lot of times we would have to debrief after calls. No one has ever said, “I’m not doing business with you, because you’re Black” [or] “I’m not doing business with you because you are a woman.” No one has ever actually come out and said that. 

But as Angela was saying, we spent a lot of time debriefing like “man, what was that?!” As an example, a lot of times during pitches, a lot of investors would be shocked that I speak [well]. They’ll say, “Wow, you speak well.” I would get it all the time. I noticed that I was getting it more than other founders that I think speak well, too. I mean, we all speak kind of the same. Then, as Angela and I were talking about it, it’s because they’re not used to someone who looks like me, maybe, perhaps, not having an accent or not having whatever — it’s like microaggressions that we’ll experience along the way. It’s not even just with investors, but even potential customers. When they get on a demo, they don’t expect to see Angela and myself, as the founders of this company. There are just a lot of things that you kind of have to ask yourself, “Okay, if they can’t give me a good reason, then why? What is it?” 

That’s why it’s so important to build resiliency because you’re going to get a lot of “no’s.” I think founders, regardless of what they look like, are going to get a lot of “no’s.” The reality is, I think, we get more “no’s” than others.

Doria: What advice would you give women of color or women, generally, who do face these microaggressions, day in and day out? They can be really demoralizing, I know. Yes, we need to be resilient. We need to keep going. We need to do twice as much to prove ourselves, but how do you keep yourself fueled?

Deborah: Yeah, I think building a village is really important. I’m lucky because, as I said, my co-founder is my sister. She is my village in this. My husband [is also] my village. Having people in your circle that you can talk to about these things and strategize with. Having that village that you can go to, that you can bounce ideas off, but that you can share [with] and make you feel like “gosh, okay, I’m not crazy,” or “I’m not alone.” Sometimes, that might be the boost in itself to help you keep going. It’s just sometimes knowing that you’re not alone in this fight. 

That is what has helped me. Angela, I don’t know if you have something else?

Angela: Yeah, absolutely. I think that building a village is crucial, but also really believing in your product and being unwavering. Of course, you may have to pivot here and there but really believe in what you are doing and the impact that you are wanting to make. One thing that you can’t deny is progress and data and what you’re building. When we were able to say, “Hey, but we grew our customer base by this much, and [here are] these facts.” People can’t deny that. I think the more that you are just convinced in your product, the more that you’re really kind of delving into your customer base, what they are using, what they like or don’t like, the better you will be able to raise. 

Doria: It makes a lot of sense. I like what you both said about finding your village, because I feel like a lot of it, almost, is if you’re alone it’s like there’s this kind of gaslighting thing. You begin to question even your own take on things. That’s tremendously valuable. 

Let’s talk about what you’re doing. I noticed that you have a new name for your company. If you could walk us through why you decided to re-brand. For listeners who may not have heard the first episode, what is it that your app does? Who is it for?

WorkTorch’s Beginning and Rebranding

Deborah: Sure, I’ll give kind of the high-level overview of our company and what we do but I also think the name change will be helpful cause it kind of gives that backstory of how the company even came about, I think. I’ll also explain why we changed the name. 

In a nutshell, WorkTorch is a career discovery platform for the service economy. What that means is we partner with job seekers to find the right job, but more importantly we come alongside them to help them find the right advancement opportunities, by doing so. By helping them look at service industry jobs as a career and not just a gig. It’s a massive problem. The average service industry worker stays only about a month and 26 days. We see this as value on both ends. Employees are able to find fulfilling careers and support their families, supporting their dreams. Employers are able to hold onto talent longer. 

Angela: A little bit of the backstory, here. The idea actually came about a number of years ago. I used to work in education. I was a career and educational advisor in inner-city schools in Los Angeles. I found that if you were a college-bound student, there were so many resources for you — whether it was apps, websites, or even people just pouring into you and giving you advice as to that next step. If you were going directly into the workforce, there were no tools on how to navigate careers and progressions. I talked about this with Deborah — just like the disparity I felt like as an individual who went to college and went down this corporate white-collar path. It was pretty much laid out. What was I supposed to do? I was like, “Something is missing. We need to be helping them. They’re so talented.” That’s when we really started. 

We wanted to make it easy for people to find work and to take those barriers off. That was a huge issue a lot of times. People would come with those paper applications or there would be lengthy websites and all of that. That’s why we started with the name QuickHire because that’s what we wanted to do. When we got to it, we realized that it’s the career progression showing people how they can go from cashier to district manager. We found that around 80 percent of our user base wanted to go into the service industry. People think that this meant a means to an end or dead-end jobs. No, a lot of people’s favorite job was when they worked out of a restaurant or in retail. They thought that was just something they did before college. There are a number of individuals that want this to be their long-term career. We wanted to make sure that they knew those pathways and were connected to companies that had clear progression opportunities. 

Doria: It’s so important. I think that there’s been such a shift right in the last decade, maybe longer. College becomes more and more expensive and inaccessible to people, and some people just don’t want to go to college. That’s a perfectly valid option. Finding those opportunities and, to your point, the progression that exists after you start at your entry-level position I think is essential. 

Talk a little bit more about your growth. I know that you’re expanding to six areas, I believe. I’m just curious about how many employees you have and how many job seekers [you have]? I know Dunkin’ Donuts is one of your clients. How has that been?

Deborah: It’s been really fun! First and foremost, just a little bit about our growth. The last time we talked, we probably had 10,000 job seekers on our platform. I think now we’re approaching 60,000 job seekers. We also have been able to work with some cool brands. We’ve been able to work with Dunkin’. We’re working with Hobby Lobby, Freddy’s Frozen Custard [& Steakburgers] — so many cool brands. We’ve been able to really kind of expand and not just have one staple brand, which is nice. 

For the last year, we had been focused on Kansas and wanted to get the playbook right before we continued to expand. That’s really where we want to go now. We want to start expanding into six markets, as you mentioned. We do have a huge focus on more of the underserved markets. We’re trying to avoid the coasts. There are several markets where we’re looking at expanding into, but we’re excited about it because we’ve been able to work with some great companies along the way. It’s been fun.

What WorkTorch Does

Doria: I’m excited for you! I wanted to ask you: I looked on your website and it’s free for job seekers. Then for companies, as I understand, it could be a month-to-month service — anywhere from $199 to $899. Then, I imagine enterprise might be a whole other deal. Why should an employer advertise with you, instead of on Indeed or LinkedIn? I’m sure you’ve gotten this question so many times that you’re like, “Oh my god! Not this again!”

Angela: First and foremost, for the service industry — and not just that — there are working individuals who want to be in the service industry and grow within the service industry. Our talent pool is a little more focused than some of our competitors who are broader and who may post a job. 

We go beyond what’s on a typical résumé. We let employers know what individuals have as their personal goals. They’re able to tell us, “Hey, I want to be a supervisor or a lead cook,” or whatever the case may be. Those employers are able to see, right off the bat, that this individual wants to grow and has the potential to grow within their company. I think that it’s more about who they’re trying to connect with. People who are trying to grow within this particular workforce. 

Deborah: And here’s the difference between us and others —On our platform,  it’s about finding people. On others, it’s mainly about finding bodies. That, for us, is a huge difference. 

Then, taking it a step further, we now have some retention tools available, as well. Once you put in all that effort of finding the right person, it’s more cost-effective to get that person to stay than to have to keep backpedaling constantly. We are continuing to grow the site with products on the retention side. For example, we send out automated text messages to ask your employees, “How is your first day,” “How do you like your manager,” and things like that that can help them get out ahead of quick quits. 

We also can integrate with applicant tracking systems and HR systems, so that we can better track when they’re turned on and let them know when a store might be understaffed. We’re excited about that side of the platform and the features that we’re continuing to roll out on that side. 

Doria: I’m excited to see that, too. You’ve always been for marginalized workers and helping them upskill, so I assume that’s what you’re going to continue to do — as time goes on. 

Deborah: Exactly, and that’s the whole meaning behind WorkTorch. We wanted to, basically, be a guiding light to a better career, and a better work environment. That is really what we’re about and want to continue to help people do that, too. 

Doria: And I was just thinking that, too. It’s so expensive and it’s something that I think many people don’t think about if they’re not in business. The cost of replacing an employee is a lot, so even if someone doesn’t care about the human side of it — which would be sad — but just the pure economics of it makes sense.

Deborah: Exactly, and that’s what this segment of the work is for, especially. The employers’ side is interested in the “give me the data. Just give me what you know.” [They want to know] what store is understaffed, how much money [they’re] losing and [stuff] like that is really what helps them make more informed decisions about their business. They’re bringing on almost a consultative role to evaluate. Our goal is to make sure that our technology is essentially a consultant so that they can make better, informed decisions.

The Responsibility of Being a Woman of Color Founder

Doria: That’s so cool because it’s scalable. 

You have both become, obviously, examples of women of color founders. How does that responsibility that goes with that make each of you feel? How does it manifest in your lives?

Deborah: It’s a good question, because, candidly, it’s something that I’ve personally struggled with. We have so much that we need to do on the business side. We have so many milestones that we need to hit. We don’t have everything figured out. We’re trying to work on our unit economics. We’re trying to figure out all these different things before starting to expand. It’s really hard to be an example when you don’t feel like you’ve made it. That is also … hard to communicate. When you’re asked to go to this engagement, do only all of these things and people want to talk to you or put you on whatever. It’s really difficult. 

There was a speaking engagement that we were involved in. It’s really difficult, but what I had to realize was that because we’re one of the few; if we want this to change, we’re going to have to speak along our journey. We’re going to have to speak along the way. That’s the only way that I think that we’ll start to see a difference — the more that we can get out there and shed light on our journey and our experiences along the way. That will either bring more awareness to some barriers that are found on our fellow founders’ faces. Or, hopefully, it will encourage others to take that idea and launch [it], so that we can continue to change the face and get more diverse, bright minds a seat at the table. 

That, to me, is why every time somebody asks, “Hey, can you be a part of this,” “Can you join in on this,” [or] “Can you meet with this person?,” while I can’t do everything, I do try to do as much as I can, because I know that’s what’s going to be required to see the change in the world that I want to see. 

Angela: Absolutely, 100 percent. Then, also, the weight of it and the weight of our successes and failures,, or whatever the case may be could potentially impact the next Black woman that we may or may not even know. Being able to have a success story or being able to raise or have a successful exit or acquire new business or whatever the case may be. VCs have a lot running through their mind and if they’re working with us, honestly, that does impact someone else’s view on Black women as a whole. We become the representation of the whole. This is something that weighs heavy on me because I want that next Black woman coming up behind us or alongside us to have someone to invest in them. They say, “Well, look what WorkTorch was able to do. Look what those two Black women were able to do. We need to invest in more people of color, into more women.” That’s another factor: We’re not just doing this for ourselves. We’re doing this for other women and people of color that we may not ever meet.

Doria: That’s an incredible response. 

Tips for Past Angela and Deborah

Doria: Where you are today in your journey, could you give some tips to Angela and Deborah from five years ago?

Deborah: The tips for me, especially, is to stop caring so much about what other people think and not seek validation from others. Then, instead, seek validation from yourself. That kind of feeds into the next one, as well, which is just kind of protecting your passion — protecting your idea. I say that, because when you have an idea — when you are excited about something or ready to do something that others have not done before — if you broadcast it to the wrong people, they may project their fears onto you. A lot of people get stuck there because then they start second-guessing what they’re doing.

If I would have told too many people about the idea that Angela and I were building for WorkTorch, they would have been like “Are you crazy? You’re about to have your third baby! You have all of these obligations. You got student loans. You have all these things!” Had I shared it with the wrong people, I think, I would have been too scared to do it. Again, protect your passion — whatever it is — as much as possible. 

Then, I think that the next thing I would say is: Essentially, whatever you’re working toward, know that it’s a marathon — it’s not a sprint. Making progress sometimes, somedays is literally just taking one step; you may not take 10 steps and that’s okay. It’s just about putting one foot in front of the other. If it is just one step, [be] proud of yourself for doing that and contributing to just [moving] forward in some capacity. It’s okay if it’s even, “I’m just going to send this one email to this investor that I’ve been scared to email today.” I think that you’ll come to find that you’ll reach that finish line faster than you think if you just take it one step at a time.

Angela: 100 percent. 

Deborah: I was a hot mess five years ago!

Angela: Oh man! I would say my advice is that we just get bound by our own thoughts: what we think we’re supposed to be doing in our lives, in our journeys that we’re supposed to be on, and what that may look like. I think that as people, it’s okay to be fascinated and explore other ideas that come to you. It’s okay to take risks on that. That you five years ago may think, “Oh, I’m going down this path,” but you may be going down a whole different world [and] you just have to be open to it. The world will already put so many limiting factors on you. The last person who needs to be putting limitations on them is yourself. 

I would say to go after and explore every single idea that’s tugging on your heart. As I said, this idea came about, I think, on a vision board in 2017. There was no reason why I didn’t go after it, because I was like, “I know nothing about tech. That’s not my line of work. I have no idea. I don’t know how to start a company, that’s not me.” Now that we have created, worked toward, and are continuing to grow our endeavors, we have thousands of people’s lives that we’ve been able to impact just by us deciding to go and move forward. That’s what I would say, do not limit yourself and be open to whatever life has ahead of you. 

Looking Ahead

Doria: I love that and wanted to ask, as we wrap up, what does 2023 have in store for both of you? First, I’m going to ask you to promise now that you will come to talk[again] this time next year. 

Deborah: Yes!

Doria: Alright, so what is your one personal and one professional goal that you would both like to achieve?

Deborah: Well, the word for me this year is growth, because it applies to every facet of my life. For WorkTorch, it’s really a growth year for us. There are a number of things that we’ve got to get right before we hit everything running, going really fast. This is the year we’re really focused on growth, as much as possible, and growing the business. 

Then, even in my personal life, wanting to continue to grow as a person and grow in different areas of life. Healthwise, I want to be able to grow as a mom, as a wife, and in so many different facets of my life. That’s my challenge for 2023.

Angela: You took my words out of my mouth! I should have gone first! I’ll choose a different one!

I would say, in addition to growing, I think being confident. I think that these last couple of years we have been working, improving ourselves, and proving our worth — proving that our idea is great and all of that. We’re at the position, right now, where we’ve proved ourselves. We just need to walk in it and be confident in everything that we do. So yes, being confident in the business, being confident in myself. 

This is my first founder experience. This is the first-time people are addressing [me as] COO and things like that. These titles, sometimes, I feel imposter syndrome. This year, I want to shake that off and be confident in who we are, who I am, and where we’re headed. 

Doria: I love it! Also, what I love about talking to both of you is the energy between you and how supportive you are of each other. I think it’s such a gift to see that among two founders. It’s a great strength. 

Where can our listeners find out more about WorkTorch?

Deborah: Well, they can find us at worktorch.io. Then, we’re on all social media channels. 

Angela: Yeah, you can find us on Facebook, even TikTok, Instagram, and Twitter. You can find me, Angela Muhwezi-Hall, at all handles. Feel free to reach out, I’d love to connect with fellow founders, and people who may be interested in any facet of our journeys and in learning more about yours, as well. Yeah, follow us at WorkTorch. Thank you.

Doria: Thank you both, are such queens! I love you!

Deborah: Oh, you are awesome!

Angela: Thank you!

Doria: Thank you for coming on SheVentures this year, and we will see each other again next year!

Deborah: 100 percent, thank you!