Transforming Women’s Health and Racial Equity 

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Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

Intro:

Doria Lavagnino: Today’s guest is an example of a woman with multiple passions: racial equity and inclusion, reducing the racial wealth gap, and women’s health. Her pivot is in her approach. From 20 years of experience in development and fundraising to today, this woman is now the CEO of Rhia Ventures, a fund that raised $44 million — and if that number is wrong, she will correct me — to transform the U.S. market vis-à-vis women’s health through impact investing, something that is so needed, I think we would all agree. She is the founder of the Racial Equity Asset Lab (the REAL), an impact investing venture working to shift capital to address the persistent race wealth gap. And we all know about that. The number that comes to mind for me in terms of venture capital [is] women of color [raise] like 0.5 percent, which is a very low number, and women overall [raise] 2 percent. Everything she’s done professionally is for the betterment of women of color and women in minorities. Erika Seth Davies, welcome to SheVentures.

Erika Seth Davies: Thank you, it’s a pleasure to be here.

Childhood Credos

Doria: I always like to start with a little about your origin story: where you grew up and if there’s either a person or a memory that comes to mind when you reflect upon your childhood.

Erika: Let’s see. My origin story starts in Baltimore City. I was born and raised in Baltimore, Maryland, to parents who also were from Baltimore, and I have an older sister. Those are my origins. I can say that in terms of the work that I do, it is deeply tied to, I think, the lessons and the messages that were on repeat in my own household from my parents. It was partly listening to them but also watching them as well. 

My mother always used to tell us, “To whom much is given, much is required.” She was a volunteer. She was in a sorority. She was active in our church. She tithed regularly. She gave resources to family members to go to college. So many things that I didn’t know at a young age that were happening from her generosity and her spirit of “To whom much is given, much is required.” 

My dad was very much [so] — he’s a software engineer — focused on step two. He always says, “You got to think [something] through to step two, three, four, like subsequent steps,” and his position was always, “It’s perfectly fine to listen to what people say, but you have to watch what people do because that tells you who they are.”

That was advice that I didn’t fully comprehend until later in life, but it’s something that he said over and over again. That also impacted me over time, because as I was watching different organizations say that their intentions were to do a [certain] thing, but [as] I watched how decisions were made and who was part of the decision-making, it became increasingly evident that that’s not actually what these institutions or decision pathways were designed to do. So, over time those things have sat with me, and I think shaped significantly my view of the world, how I attempt to move and interact with folks in the world, and the work that I try to bring forward.

Doria: That’s so eloquently stated. On the one hand, you have your mother who is philanthropic and very much about paying it forward and ensuring that she can help members in her community. Then, at the same time, I think about your father, and I think about the difference between — in terms of entrepreneurship anyway, right? — these so-called visionaries who really don’t know how to do the step-by-step [process]. And the step-by-step [process] is life. 

Lastly, the thing that you said — and this was a really hard one for me to learn — is [to] look at people’s actions. Not what they say, because there are so many people that can talk a good talk. That one was a hard one for me to follow. Thank you for that. 

Erika: Yeah, on many levels, right? Personal, professional impact — [on] so many levels. That is just a truism and something that actually shapes the framework of the Racial Equity Asset Lab. It gives an opportunity to make a statement, but then it kind of follows through and what are you doing to honor that? 

Getting Invested (With an English Degree)

Doria: Yes, and I can’t wait to delve into that because I really wanted to go deeply into that. I wanted to talk a little bit about earlier in your career only because SheVentures is about pivots. So I know that you spent a lot of time in fundraising. How did that work start and evolve over time?

Erika: Sure. It started very early in my career and, probably, at the time, earlier than most people would get into fundraising. I was about 22, maybe 23 when I was hired by a community-based organization that was in need of a grant writer. I had never done that before, but [I] was an English major, so I think the assumption was I could write, at the very least. I was hired at the entry-level and was given a mentor until [I] figured out how to write proposals to raise funds for this organization. 

[I] just sort of jumped right in, and two things were happening — or two things that I came to understand. One, that this was an Empowerment Zone, which in the early mid-90s [meant] at least 100 million dollar grants were given out to different cities. I was working in one of the Empowerment Zones, and the whole purpose of the one that I was working in was: one, make sure the tax credits and all that kind of stuff were happening, but it was also part of welfare-to-work [during] this era under the Clinton administration. We had a lot of people that were being pushed off of the welfare rolls. 

What struck me was the commitment of the organization and its leadership. It was represented in the leadership of the board and in the way that we did our work — it was tied to people for whom this was an actual lived experience. The community was deeply involved in the organization. What I was hearing to inform my work was directly from people who needed whatever services or whatever programs we were going to design. That really just stayed with me because, again, it was self-determination even within a system that was imposing certain policies on the community. 

One of the first successful grants that I wrote was for what was called an individual development account (IDA) program that would match dollar for dollar in savings — what people would save as they were shifting into these programs. It was so simple. We were talking to people about, “Well, how do you save?” They were like, “I can’t save.” What struck me was the same things that keep a white-collar worker or anybody in their job — which is the ability to have benefits, like saving for retirement or saving for whatever — was: Why wouldn’t that apply here? 

Anyway, long story short, it shaped how I approach fundraising, and it shaped my understanding of stakeholder engagement, community involvement, and what it means to — because I was also seeing this at the same time — developers [working] in the neighborhood saying that they were having community engagement, [but only] giving the appearance of it. Like, “We’ll have this meeting, but we’ll design what we wanna design anyway.” 

Doria: There are a few things that really struck me about what you said. One, you can be an English major and get into work that is going to interest you. Really, I think that [is] a real fear that some people have: Well, what am I going to do with my major? There’s so much you can do with an English major. 

Erika: Oh God, yes.

Doria: Yeah. Communication is key. To your point about community development, I saw this in Brooklyn when Barclays Center was created, and eminent domain was put upon the neighborhood. I was not super involved, but I do remember there were certain community milestones that they needed to meet in terms of affordable housing. My sense is that, and I would really have to fact-check this, but I don’t think that they were met in the way that most people expected them to be met. Plus, a lot of people who’d been living in that area for 20 or 30 years were losing their homes. Period. Those are the things that happen every day.

Erika: That definitely shaped my approach to the work at a very early stage.

Putting Things Into Context

Doria: And I think you’ve done this. Are there other insights that you’d want to share from your experience in fundraising and program design that could specifically help women and small business owners improve their own strategies?

Erika: I think authenticity matters more now than ever. People tend to try to meet the needs of the investor or meet the needs of the donor, which I’ve done my fair share of. Yet, at the same time, it didn’t always feel good, and I don’t know that I was actually being helpful in the long run. 

I’ll give an example. I was doing fundraising with the school and was looking at our proposals and it was very deficit-framed. The language in the proposal was talking about at-risk youth, communities that were blighted, and all this other kind of stuff. It wasn’t contextualizing how [the community] got that way, right? Even if we assume that this is true, people don’t choose to exist in certain conditions. There was some framing that wasn’t, I thought, accurate. I thought this was — this is going to sound crass — “poverty pimping.” As a fundraiser, I don’t want to be a part of this ongoing narrative. So this had to change. 

I was very intentional about changing the language and the framing that I was using in proposals because I didn’t want to continue perpetuating this view of Black children and Black communities, because it was predominantly Black, to white donors. That was sort of a moment where I had to understand what my — not just my point of view — but what was driving my commitment to doing the work in the first place. This had to be a part of it. 

The authenticity with which we do our work actually does matter. I understand, sometimes you’ve got to move. You can’t just be rigid. [However] there has to be some nugget or something that is held sacred, regardless of the resources or who or how folks approach [your work], that you hold at the center. Either as a fundraiser, entrepreneur, founder, whatever — [you have a center] that you’re not going to move off of or [that] you will defend. That’s the authentic nugget that is core to you as an individual but also to what it is that you’ve created. Getting really clear about what that thing is and protecting it [is important].

Doria: I love that. I can’t — not that you need me to — add anything. It’s so well said. I think it’s such great, great insight. So today you’re CEO of Rhia Ventures. Can you talk to the audience a little bit about how that came about first and then we’ll go from there.

Erika: Very randomly, actually. So I am — what I very often say — [an] accidental entrepreneur and an accidental CEO to a degree. Of course, I had to apply for the position, and there was intention there. But it’s not because I saw a thing, and I was like, “Oh, let me go for that.” 

If I back up just a little bit to 2020, during which I was a fellow with the Beeck Center for Social Impact and Innovation running the Equitable Access to Capital Markets program. The intentions of that program were to promote engagement of diverse managers in different spaces. [It] [looked] at different types of institutional investors and [encouraged] them to develop strategies that would actually source and hire managers. 

The approach was going to require me to be in [live] spaces, but then the pandemic happened. We shifted the program to focus more on blogs and webinars. The first blog [post] that I released was Hiding in Plain Sight: The Racism in the Room Made Visible by COVID-19. It [talked] about what we were seeing happening in society that was actually being discussed and surfaced. That was released maybe a week or two before George Floyd’s murder. The racial reckoning that followed started to shift the gaze to capital. All of a sudden there were these questions about, “Wait, why are our communities looking this way?” 

My work was front and center. For that entire year, I don’t know that there was a week where I wasn’t on somebody’s webinar or doing some media interview or having a conversation about racism and capital markets and thinking about racial equity, impact investing, and different strategies, et cetera. In that visibility, I was on a webinar for SOCAP [around] October, and I was asked for an introduction by a mutual friend to the board chair of Rhia. 

The lesson learned here is you never know who’s watching. But again, that was always my passion. That was my nugget. That was the sacred thing. I’d been doing that for years — like 10 years; saying the same thing for 10 years — but all of a sudden it was platformed. I was asked to apply [for the CEO position at Rhia Ventures] because I had a view not just on reproductive and maternal health — I actually didn’t have any background in that. The work I’ve been doing was in racial equity and impact investing — that experience was what the [former] CEO and the board thought was needed for the organization because we’re a hybrid. We’re a nonprofit organization that owns a venture fund. That venture fund, which sits under Rhia Ventures, is making those investments, but it’s tied into a larger strategy. 

The skills, the experience, and the point of view that I had were quite applicable and [the board] was supportive. You can hire someone with technical expertise, but this mashup of experience, perspective, and understanding is rare to find, and that’s what we need within the organization. That’s how I became CEO.

Doria: It’s amazing to me to think that it took such tragic events to move America to where you have been, [where] many women have been, and [where] many people of color have been for a really long time [and] seeing these issues and talking about them. That’s just very striking to me. 

[For] Rhia Ventures, can you tell listeners a little bit about what you invest in, the typical type of entrepreneurs that you might be looking for, or typical deal size, that sort of thing?

Erika: Sure. So, RH Capital’s investment thesis is focused on four pillars. There’s systemic change. There’s affordability. There’s transforming the market, and [there’s] access.

When we’re looking at companies — again, it tends to be early and growth-stage companies, so seed [stage] or series A, so not necessarily profitable yet, or the opportunity is moving out of research and into commercial viability. That’s sort of the stage of companies that we’re looking at. From there, as a subsidiary of a nonprofit, the initial screen for companies is one around impact. [Does the company support] our impact thesis? Does it have the potential to impact health equity outcomes as well? 

In reproductive and maternal health, as with so many other areas in health [and] life outcomes, there are disparities in access and disparities in health outcomes. For example, the maternal health crisis: It is a crisis for Black women and getting worse. The way that [Rhia Ventures] looks at companies is through that lens as well. Not necessarily to determine whether or not a company comes in or out of a portfolio, but really what is possible with this company. There’s both a financial diligence in view because we are a market-rate return fund, but that [impact-oriented] first lens gives us an understanding of how this [company can] actually be transformative with respect to women’s reproductive and maternal health.

Doria: What would you say of the investments that Rhia has made? Is there one that stands out to you that has made a measurable impact in a community? Which I also realize is a hard question to answer because you’re investing in really early-stage companies, so they may not have a track record yet. 

Erika: Exactly. Some of it is really looking at, again, those that are in the market, like Cayaba or Mae, [or] Nurx, which was moving into the U.S. market as an online pharmacy — [companies] that are actually functioning in the market. Mae is focused on access to doulas and maternal health outcomes for Black women. Cayaba [is] similarly situated, [but it’s] more of a place-based model that is leveraging health navigators to support improved maternal health outcomes. Philadelphia was where that one was established. Those are, I think, exciting because they’re so focused and unapologetic in the work and the approach that they’re taking.

And there’s no favorite, right? It’s like, “I love all my children equally.” But those are examples of ones that are super focused on addressing health outcomes.

Doria: Correct me if I’m wrong, [but] you also invest in sex health as well, right? 

Erika: We don’t have any in our portfolio right now, and that’s still an emergent field and space. I think there are other women’s health funds that are making investments in sexual health, but there are none that are in our portfolio just yet. I will say this, at the time when Rhia was established, there really weren’t a lot of women’s health–focused funds either. To see the growth of the sector, where you’re seeing more funds and you’re seeing other types of funds entering this market, is actually pretty significant. Because we were very focused on contraception and abortion care access initially. Most of what’s in our portfolio was contraception. Whether that’s contraceptive technologies or access, that was the core initially, but it’s a much more expanded portfolio of companies that you’ll see right now.

How the Past Affects the Future — And How to Stop It

Doria: I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about [this] for listeners. You said that there is a crisis in healthcare for Black women. Can you talk to that a little bit more so that listeners understand why it is a crisis?

Erika: The “why” is varied. If we understand the history of gynecology and obstetrics in our country, Black women’s bodies were basically being used for scientific experimentation. There’s a level of dismissiveness, disrespect, and cruelty, quite frankly, that is in the roots of this country’s relationship to reproductive healthcare.

That doesn’t happen by mistake, and it doesn’t go away overnight. A lot of the attitudes toward Black women and their healthcare have been embedded in medicine over time. You see a lot of what’s called “medical racism.” You see a lot of bias in terms of the treatment of Black women and their pain. I think there were very high-profile conversations about this when Beyoncé and Serena Williams told their stories about not being believed.

These are two women who are not just at the top of their professions; [they are in] physically peak condition. If anyone would know what is going on in their bodies, it is women who rely on their bodies as their profession. The idea that they wouldn’t be believed by their caregivers, who ostensibly are probably among the best in the world, gives you an indication of what anyone else could expect. When looking at Black maternal health outcomes in terms of morbidity and mortality, Black women are dying at significantly higher rates than white women, and it’s already bad in our country when you look at developed countries with respect to women’s deaths per 100,000 births.

It’s actually dangerous to be a Black woman and to carry a pregnancy to term and have a baby. That’s embedded. To be able to undo that, you have to see it. You have to see it. You have to name it and understand the root cause. This didn’t just pop up in the last 5 or 10 years. This has been happening over decades if not centuries. You have to want to alleviate suffering. You have to want to actually deal with the humanity of this, or the inhumanity of it from a place of, “This has to change.” We can’t allow this to be the conditions under which people are going through what should be a natural part of life. I think having this understanding of the historical context is so important. Not that we can change what’s happened in history, but that’s where it comes from. If we don’t understand that, then we don’t take the right interventions to do something different.

Doria: I’m kind of ashamed to admit this, but the first time I really understood, at least intellectually, what you’re referring to was when I read a book called The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks.

I’m sure you know, [she was] a woman who, I believe, had either cervical or uterine cancer and kept going to the doctor, I think to Johns Hopkins, and she was not a woman of means. They kept sending her back and telling her there was nothing wrong with her. Then she died of cancer and the institution realized that her cells could replicate. I don’t quite understand the science behind that, but they basically now call them HeLa cells for Henrietta Lacks. They’re used today, and they’ve been used to help a myriad of healthcare discoveries. Her family was never compensated. She was never asked for consent. There were so many [questions] that were raised by this book. What you’re talking about reminds me of how long it’s been going on.

Erika: The book that I was referencing is called Medical Bondage, and it looks at the history of American gynecology — written by Dr. Deirdre Cooper Owens — and really digs into the story of the system that enabled James Marion Sims to become the father of gynecology. 

She talks about the mothers of gynecology and these women who were not only patients [but also] operated on against their consent. They couldn’t consent because they were enslaved Black women and without anesthesia because it was believed that Black women didn’t feel pain the same way that white women did, and then were forced not only to be operated on this way but also to support and care for each other. Also expected to continue to function in the ways that enslaved women were expected to function. 

A point of view that would see that as okay — again, that doesn’t happen overnight — and it was accepted, [the practice] was seen as acceptable: those are the roots of American gynecology. Those are the types of stories and understandings that we have to have so that we’re not repeating those patterns. Because [James Marion Sims] became wealthy. His innovations in surgery and the tools that he was creating at that time — he became wealthy, he established a reputation, and [he] became a medical leader. But at what cost was that enabled? If we’re not clear about that, we will repeat those. Those patterns get repeated all the time.

When we’re thinking about innovation for the sake of innovation, [we can’t refuse to] push pause and [ask], “Who’s going to benefit from this innovation?” Not just materially in terms of the financial, but health-wise. Who’s informing this innovation? How are we thinking about this in the marketplace? [There are] so many questions that can go into the process that very often are overlooked and not understood as, again, replicating what’s happened before.

Ensuring Equity in Your Own Business

Doria: Yes, that’s powerful and thought-provoking. With that in mind, for people who are listening today, what actionable tips can you give to entrepreneurs or women who just want to help drive innovation, access, and equity in their own industries?

Erika: That’s a great question. I’m glad that you used the word “equity” in that because that does require a deeper understanding of what’s shaping the outcomes that are happening in that industry. Regardless of who you are and where you’re entering this work, I believe we should be thinking about solidarity. I don’t have to have your experience to want to support you in advancing better outcomes for the community that you may represent.

I think everyone has a role to play in being intentional about solidarity and thinking about who’s being harmed or who has been harmed with respect to the problem that I’m trying to resolve with this innovation. Being very intentional about going to the margins to understand if I design a thing for those who exist at the margins, everyone else is going to actually benefit.

If I design for the margins, I will absolutely address all the other problems that are happening along the way, because you’re basically broadening your aperture. If your aperture is really closed and focused on a very small group, then there are people that you’re just not seeing. If you intentionally broaden that aperture so that you’re seeing who has been ignored or who’s been rendered invisible in the past, your solution is going to, by virtue of doing that, encompass everyone else in the middle.

Being intentional about doing that work is incredibly important. Yes, it takes time. Yes, you have to be intentional. Yes, it requires effort. But I think once you recognize that that’s not what’s going on, you have a choice: “Will I advance [the] status quo? Or will I take a different path and advance a different set of outcomes in a different world?”

Doria: And the outcomes that you’re talking about when you talk about a different aperture — the product or service itself will be better because it’s really being informed by [everything]. When thought of in that way, it’s such a no-brainer and kind of remarkable that [the opposite] still goes on today.

Erika: Yeah. The curb-cut effect is what I referenced. 

Doria: What is it called? Sorry.

Erika: It’s called the curb-cut effect. When we have a universal goal, what are the targeted interventions or the targeted strategies so that everyone can get to that goal? If health is the goal, what are the targeted strategies that different communities need to be able to get to that? [It’s] accounting for the ways in which groups are situated differently when we’re aiming for a particular goal.

Doria: How do you incorporate a racial equity lens in practice? In your day-to-day practice, what does that look like?

Erika: I’ve been fortunate enough to be around some amazing practitioners, some amazing researchers, thought leaders, decision-makers, all kinds of folks from different perspectives who do think about this all the time. [I have] been able to read some interesting books and be part of different conversations and processes. 

One of the things that I had developed over time from [those experiences] to help decision-makers apply racial equity lens is an actual framework so that you’re thinking not just in terms of the result but [also] the process. If my aspiration is to have more equitable outcomes with respect to manager diversity, that’s something I’ve been spending a lot of time on, then what is it that I do every day? What’s informing [me]? What are the data points that I’m using? What’s my actual commitment to this? What is the degree to which I understand what I’m seeing? What are my policies telling me to do? When I am looking for authority or guidance, what are my policies shaped to do? Are they race-explicit? Are they at least race-informed? 

What is the data that I’m using? Even thinking deeply about data, such as who owns it? Who’s shaping it? All these different questions in that regard as well. Is it disaggregated in a way that I actually understand how different groups are faring with respect to my decision or this area of work that I’m focused on? Who has been involved? Who is involved in the decision-making and how is that informing strategy? Is there an authentic representative voice, or am I making stuff up? 

[If] I just wanna do a thing with people who live closest to the problem and how they’re experiencing it [I have to ask]: “What would [they] tell me to do, and am I willing to even shift a little bit of that power, that decision-making?” Those are just some of the reflection questions in a process. I also think about narrative.

Back to that story, I was telling earlier, but what’s the narrative that’s shaping this understanding? Is it an asset frame or a deficit frame? Is it using systems to explain the outcomes? Because it’s very easy to say, “Well, there’s a disparity, but it’s because of individual behavior.” Individual behavior is driven by circumstances. 

Doria: Right, or it’s a pipeline problem.

Erika: Exactly. These are all the kinds of questions that I’m running through and looking at when applying that lens to decision-making.

Framing Your Narrative

Doria: You said you have a framework that you have in place. For anyone who wants to learn about that framework, how can they do so?

Erika: Sure. There is one framework actually on our website at Rhia Ventures. It’s called the HEART Framework, and it is based on the REAL framework, but it’s a way of thinking about decision-making through a health equity lens. You can actually go to our website and find that. Just a click on the HEART Framework. That’s an excellent tool for thinking about the company level. We also have resources for investors for their due diligence.

That’s all available. Or you can go to the Racial Equity Asset Lab. We’re actually just about to update that site where you’d be able to download the framework directly, but [you] can reach out to get access to the framework.

Doria: And the lab is — obviously, a lot of people have been involved in it — but that is your baby, right? You created it, yes?

Erika: That was in 2018.

Doria: Were you at that point working with companies who expressed an interest in — and I know there are so many companies that do express an interest in diversity, equity, and inclusion and then actually think they’re doing the thing but don’t measure it or it’s just kind of performative rather than actually caring. So what was it like in 2018, and what is it like now? Is there a difference, generally speaking?

Erika: I think there is a difference. The level of conversation and the baseline has shifted a bit. In 2018, when I established it, it was because I had finished my work at the Association of Black Foundation Executives, which is where I had a lot of engagement with foundations on endowment management practices. Then [I] spent about just shy of two years at a community foundation, the Baltimore Community Foundation. 

The conversations about racial equity impact investing were still not happening at a large scale. There are a bunch of conferences and convenings that happen in this space and it really still wasn’t being talked about. My point of view is that we cannot actually talk about impact at the E, the S, or the G — at the environmental, the social, or the governance — unless we are also talking about inequity and talking about racial equity because that’s where the deepest disparities exist.

It was designed that way. If we’re not having those conversations, then we’re not really gonna have [a] deep impact. I created [the REAL] to start [thinking] about having those conversations and who wanted to be part of those conversations. Not the surface level, “we have our policy so we don’t get in trouble with the federal government” level [of conversations] but actual interest and deep commitment. That’s how it got started.

The environment in 2018 wasn’t a hostile one, but it wasn’t a reflective environment where people would actually see these words and be like, “You know what, we actually maybe need to think about that.” It was, “Whoa, do we need to talk about it?” You use the race word — those words are going to put people on edge. 

Post-2020, there’s a lot more familiarity and a little bit more comfort with the language. There’s more expectation regarding data. That wasn’t the case in 2018. People are now asking, “Who’s in my portfolio?” Who owns the asset management firms that are running my money right now? I want to see what that workforce looks like and I want to actually engage more diverse managers, but I won’t know unless I know what’s already in my portfolio.” That’s becoming [the] baseline.

That is [the] difference. The fact that it’s on every agenda. You can’t go to a conference where there’s not at least one workshop or a theme that is tied to racial equity. The dialogue is there. We still have a ways to go on the action. But I think those would be the biggest things.

Doria: The action is following but not as fast as it needs to.

Erika: Not as fast, or as deep, yeah.

Tips and Tricks for Venture Capital

Doria: There’s a lot of very surface level [progress]. What tips would you give to women and minority entrepreneurs who are facing racial inequity barriers and seeking opportunities in the venture capital space?

Erika: The one thing I would say first and foremost is that venture capital is not the space for everyone. That doesn’t mean don’t pursue VC funding. Not at all. If this is the right type of funding for you, go for it. Just be clear that that’s the right type of funding that you want to pursue for your company. You’ve got to give up equity, and there are very high expectations of return.

If scale is not what you’re interested in doing, then think twice about pursuing VC. That said, if that is of interest to you, try to find the funds that are more aligned with your values. Start there because you’ll get more support. There will be more of a conversation about that sacred thing and how to support that and support you as an individual.

There are VCs that are out here and other private equity that have an impact thesis. That’s not to say that every woman or person of color who’s starting a company or who’s seeking that funding is doing it for impact. What I’m suggesting is if, out of your lived experience, you’ve created a thing, and there is that sacred piece of it, the impact funds may be a better first option [rather than] getting out here and being out in the world with people who don’t know, don’t care, and don’t care to know [about impact]. 

That would be [the] first step that I would recommend. Connect with some of the incubators and the accelerators that are out there. There are those that are designed for women, women of color, and people of color. Make sure that you’re connected to those. I’m thinking of New Voices Foundation as an example of one.

Build those networks. I would also say crowdfunding gets a bad rap sometimes, but there are platforms out there that can link opportunities for community investment to founders. Seek those out as well, because that is also an overlooked opportunity. We talk about the friends and family. Sometimes you gotta have a more expansive view of friends and family and how to incorporate that as well. Those are just some of the basic recommendations.

Doria: That’s a great, great thing that you’re saying because you remind me of two women of color who’ve been on my show twice, and they’re coming on, I hope, for a third time, and they raised venture capital in an oversubscribed round. But one of the things that they said that was just inherently kind of, in their words, racist about the process was the notion that they had friends and family that could afford to put that kind of money into venture [capital] and [potentially] lose it, right? That was really eye-opening and so true. I thank you for mentioning crowdfunding because it is a good way to spread the risk and potentially benefit even more people.

Erika: Yes, and you can have more participation that way. You started off talking about the racial wealth gap. Because of that, people don’t have friends and family [that] can invest and afford to lose that investment at the earliest stages of a company. The very idea of [basing] who has made these investments on the front end, or who’s supporting this founder on the front end, [as] an indication of commitment is inherently racist because we have a system that did not allow for people to build wealth through redlining and other means.

That’s why history is so important. That’s why you have to know. Because that’s the context. If we don’t have a sense of racial history and an understanding of that, then we don’t know why things are the way [that] they are. That’s what I mean about [encountering] people who don’t know, or just don’t care to know. You’re not going to get a good audience with those types of folks. Again, do what’s necessary to get your thing.

Doria: My last question is: How do you deal with the people who don’t want to hear the message? 

Erika: That is a great question. Maybe I have designed my life in a way that I try not to have interaction with them. Because this goes to your earlier question about why Black women’s maternal health outcomes are what they are. Because of racism. [It’s] stressful. It is a stressful system to have to exist in and have to deal with. 

The degree to which you can create protective factors and not actually have to have interaction with folks like that matters. Now, I know that’s not realistic. I’m not going to say that you’re not going to have to deal with folks like that. But I think being able to recognize it when it’s happening [is] where some of those — people call it self-care, and I don’t know if that’s the right term for it — but you have to figure out how to create the distance between what is a very personal experience, like a lived experience, and dealing with someone for whom that may not be clear. That you don’t even know what you’re saying because you don’t have a sense of that history or root cause analysis or what’s the systemic drivers of this particular outcome. 

Because it’s finance, you almost can’t avoid having to have interactions with these folks. But remaining focused and then finding those opportunities that are aligned at the intersection of values can help with that. It’s not a perfect answer. It may not be a helpful one, but there is that balance between trying to stay whole and still trying to get your product to market and out in the world.

Doria: Absolutely. At the end of the day, we all have to sustain ourselves in some way. I know exactly what you mean: the balance between the fight and the inequity and — what do we call it, self-care? It’s hard. It’s hard to even know the words to use to just stay afloat. 

I want to thank you for your honesty in talking about these issues and in educating me and my audience — not my audience, the audience. I’ve really benefited from speaking with you. Before you tell listeners where we can find out more about Rhia Ventures, if there’s one thing that anyone can do in 2023 to make an impact, what would that be? In racial inequity. Let me be specific.

Erika: That is a really, really hard question to answer. It depends on where you’re coming into the effort, right? Like where you are in the end.

Doria: Yeah, on the context, I realize.

Erika: Where you are on the journey. For some people, it is just to get a book — read The Color of Law or read Race for Profit, or read something that is going to enlighten you on these issues. Dorothy Roberts’ Killing the Black Body — excellent book for understanding the injustice in terms of Black women’s reproductive health. It’s a great book for really deepening an understanding of how policy has shaped health outcomes for Black women as well. 

Just educate yourself so that your perspective is different. That’s one place for folks to enter. But you can’t stop there, right? You then actually have to take that and understand how to apply that learning to decision-making, order resource allocation, [etc.] right? Do something that’s going to inform your point of view to action, not necessarily just for the sake of gaining information. It only matters if it shifts into impacting what you do.

Doria: Yes, action. I think it’s a very underused word and a really important one. Where can listeners find out more about Rhia Ventures or if they would like to contact you, how would they do so?

Erika: Sure, so you can find us at Rhia Ventures — R-H-I-A, ventures.org — that’s where you can access the HEART Framework, some of our corporate engagement and shareholder advocacy resources, our database on company statements, [and] public statements regarding abortion care access. Please, by all means, check out our website and all the many resources that we have there. 

I’m on LinkedIn, so if you look up Erika Seth Davies, you can find me on LinkedIn.

I think my email might be on the website. I’m slow on email, I can tell you that, but Erika@RhiaVentures.org is where my email address is and that’s where folks can find me.

Doria: Thank you for all the work that you’re spearheading. I look forward to keeping an eye on everything and making my own small impact as well. Thank you.

Erika: Thank you so much. I appreciate being here. And continue to lift up all these different stories on your platform. That’s so needed.