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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

Intro: 

Doria Lavagnino: This woman was early to podcasting — being in radio starting about a decade ago, and has consistently produced award-winning content focused on pop culture, music, entertainment, and the LGBTQ+ community in every media. She’s hosted two morning shows in Melbourne, Australia. Before podcasting was mainstream, she interviewed people like Paula Abdul and Martina McBride. She has been a TV presenter, a live reporter for Bent TV, a writer-producer, and host of a weekly podcast called The Ginni Show, and I could go on and on because the list goes on and on. I don’t want to ruin this long amazing résumé for everyone! Today she is the founder and CEO of Ginni Media, a podcast strategy creation and product company. Ginni Saraswati, welcome to SheVentures!

Ginni Saraswati: Thank you, Doria! What a résumé! I’m going to clip that! Thank you for having me on.

Doria: You’re welcome. You’re already making me laugh! I love your levity. I think that you know there needs to be more of that in the world, and there’s not. 

Her Origin Story

Doria: I wanted to start with your backstory — your story of origin. Your family’s from Sri Lanka and moved to Australia when you were 2. I was wondering what that experience was like.

Ginni: Sure. It’s interesting when I get asked this question because typically I kind of gloss over it. I was born in Sri Lanka and raised in Australia. My mother was overprotective [and] kind of expected me to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. It’s lovely, though, to have some time to reflect and go, “What was that transition like?” I have to slow down. 

I only have very faded memories because I was so young. I do remember this vivid image of there being lots of sand and trees. I remember one of our uncles or neighbors [climbing in] this coconut tree. He just shocked [us]. It shook so hard and coconuts fell. I was like, “This is really cool.” As a 2-year-old, I was like, “Wow, this is the best thing!”

My mother used to scare me with butterflies when I didn’t eat my dinner. I had this fear of butterflies until I was 12, but that’s a separate story.

When we moved to Australia, I remember being completely bewildered and confused. My mom gave me lots of toys and food on the plane. [It] eased me into a bit of sleep so I didn’t really know what was going on. Then, we landed in this strange land — which was cold— people looked totally different.

My auntie put us up for a couple of nights until we moved into our unit. She was wearing these green overalls and had black teeth. I just remember thinking, “This looks weird.” The climate was different, the house looked different. My auntie had this two-story lovely house but it looked different. I was so mad that I drew on a wall. 

The transition, I think, was an adjustment, upon reflection. When you are growing up in an environment that looks different from what you’re used to, people sound different — I have an Australian accent now but when I’m on the phone, it does switch back to [my original] accent. But I was very fortunate to be able to be on a path of education and have the facilities. The opportunities that I did in Australia, I probably wouldn’t have had in Sri Lanka at the time. There was a civil war going on there, so I’m eternally grateful for that. 

There was a part of me that I think was very much driven by my mom. She was very much keeping our culture in the family. She had a rule, “Speak Sinhalese at home. You can speak English outside of it.” She did make an effort to keep that going. I think it’s always kind of a juggling act. That was kind of my experience in a nutshell. 

Doria: That makes a lot of sense. I’m trying to imagine being you, as a little girl, going to school in Australia for the first time. At that point, was your English strong enough?

Ginni: It took me a while to speak. I remember when I went to pre-kindergarten in Australia, I was very shy. I was trying to adjust to this world where people look different and there were different cultures. There weren’t that many people who looked like me at the time. I used to get asked, “Why are you brown?” I didn’t understand the question. Brown wasn’t around. I couldn’t say, “I woke up like this.” I think, for me, going to school was very much like I had to be taught certain things.

I didn’t know this, and maybe my mom told me, but I wasn’t paying attention. My middle name was [being used], which is Virgina — it’s where Ginni comes from. At home, I was called Virginia. When I went to school and people were calling me Virgina, I wasn’t responding because that’s not what I was used to being called. I was taught what my middle name was very quickly after.

I think [with] the adjustment, it took a while for me to kind of find my voice, which is why I’m so passionate about what I do now. I think that’s the link, but being able to talk, communicate, and understand that people communicate differently, they receive communication differently, and hear things differently — I think I’ve always been sensitive to that. That was what my experience carved out for me. 

I Love You, Australia, I Love You Not

Doria: Yes, that makes so much sense. If you were to say three things that you like about Australia and three things that you don’t like that much, what would that be?

Ginni: Right, three things that I like about Australia. I love my friends in Australia. They live there. I grew up with a very lovely group of friends who are supportive there. They’re my tribe to sound cheesy.

The second thing I love about Australia is its coffee and café culture. Now that may sound like a cheesy thing to say, but there is bloody good coffee in Australia. 

Doria: I wouldn’t have thought that.

Ginni: Exactly! If you go to Melbourne — where I’m from — the coffee there is exceptional. What I like about that, is the encouragement of community and gathering. 

When I moved to America, I quickly learned how many cafés had Wi-Fi and how many people would work there. [A lot of] my experience of Australian culture and Melbourne culture is when we go out to brunch, we go out to talk to our friends and catch up. It’s an experience as the focus of conversation rather than “Let’s grab a coffee and do some work.” We didn’t [or] it wasn’t as glaringly obvious. 

The third thing I love about Australia is Melbourne, especially where I’m from. I’ll say Melbourne is what I love, too. It’s a diverse culture. There are over 250 cultures there.

Doria: I had no idea.

Ginni: I grew up in Clayton. It’s like Queens. That’s why I think I love Queens so much in New York. It fits in perfectly for me [with] what I grew up around. 

By Clayton, where I grew up, there was a whole street of Sri Lankan shops where you can get Sri Lankan groceries. Back in the early ’90s, there was only one but now there are about five or six. There’s [another] little place where you can go and get Asian groceries or Greek. It’s such a diverse food culture.

Doria: It sounds like Queens!

Ginni: It sounds a lot like Queens! That’s the other thing I love about Australia, the diversity that is in Melbourne that I experienced growing up and the community that’s there. You get to really embrace yourself or the culture, I should say. 

Doria: Do you want to touch upon some of the things that you don’t care about?

Ginni: Okay, I didn’t realize this until I moved to America — and I know every country has its own varying degrees of racial tensions or racial intolerance — but I didn’t realize how intolerant Australia was in terms of the race topic: what they know and then what they don’t understand. In that part of Australia, I was very lucky not to be victimized. I have not experienced that. When I came here and I saw some of the stories coming out, I was a little bit more sensitive to the topic. I was learning a few things. I was like, “Hang on, that’s not cool.” [They’re] asking, “Well, why isn’t it? Why is it offensive?” That’s not really the way to go about it. I mean, it’s good to be curious but instead of learning about why that is, it comes down to communication. That’s one thing.

The second thing is it’s so bloody far away. It takes a whole day to get there and a whole day to get back. If you go there, you’re going to stay awhile because it takes just as long to get there.

Doria: Australia and Antarctica are the two continents I haven’t made it to, yet. Part of it is it’s like I feel like I need three weeks if I’m going to at least do Australia. 

Ginni: Exactly! You do need three weeks. It’s that bloody big. The other part I don’t like is the really hot dry summers. There’s bushfire season. It gets to over 100 degrees. I’m still trying to figure out Celsius and Fahrenheit but it gets over 108 degrees consistently in the summer. That part I don’t miss. 

Doria: Oh, my goodness. Thank you! I have learned so much that I did not know. 

Ginni: Yeah, there you go! 

Radio Ginni

Doria: You were on the radio. How did that happen? When you were in college? That’s not easy to get, a radio gig, I don’t think. 

Ginni: Well, I was very fortunate in that sense. When I was in college, I was studying creative art. You study film and theater. I was like “This is cool! I’m loving the theater and performing arts. I love learning about cinema and all that sort of stuff.” [I was] at a good age to try things. When you’re in college and your 20s, it’s a good decade to try things and see what sticks.

Doria: Yeah, absolutely.

Ginni: I came across this station called JOY 94.9, which is Australia’s first and only gay radio station. I was like, “Okay, this is a good way to build a community and meet new people.” [In my culture] homosexuality was illegal. It wasn’t exactly like I could go to a party at my age and go, “Let’s talk about being lesbian!” I couldn’t do that. 

So, I went and applied for JOY 94.9. [They] had a radio course where they train young people under 25 to pretty much learn about radio and broadcasting. I signed up for it. They accepted me; they only took about 20 people. 

I met a lot of really cool, talented people who have gone on to do pretty amazing things, as well. I also got the opportunity to learn about radio and host my own show. 

I started with the graveyard shift — the 11 pm show — called “I Spy the Hottest Hits of Now,” where you do a countdown show trying to be Ryan Seacrest because that’s all we had as an example at the time. Then, from there, I started doing morning shows and drive-time shows. I had a lot of fun. I enjoyed being there. I didn’t think I would like it because, with theater, you get to hide behind a character and play [them]; you know what to say, your lines are set and you can play off that. With radio, you have to be yourself. It’s such an intimate form. If you are sounding fake, it comes across 10 times louder because it’s only audio. So, that got my feet wet.

There was a series of JOY we did for the cast members of Queer As Folk. It was a very popular show in the early 2000s for the community. I think it was the only show at the time that really depicted a 3D life of what an LGBTQ+ person lived. Typically, you only saw one side of it — like how gay men were portrayed at the time. That was a show that meant a lot to me. I think, naturally, it was just interesting. That show had such a big impact on me.

Doria: Of course.

Ginni: There were some [celebrity] interviews that I did. I either got press release answers or I [was] steered back to where I wanted to go. It was quite a workout

Doria: It’s media training. They’ve been told to make these three points and no matter what question you ask, they always go right back. Somehow, it’s amazing.

Ginni: Exactly. Yeah, and they’re doing back-to-back interviews.

Doria: Sure.

Ginni: I have that perspective. What I’m grateful for about that experience is, now when I do interviews with people who love to go on tangents — and when I do this for clients — [I know] I’ve got to steer them back. It gets your journalist muscle working.

Coming Out

Doria: Absolutely, and I’m glad that you brought up your coming out. How was it with your family? How did that go?

Ginni: Right, it’s interesting. In two weeks, I’m actually going to Australia. My cousin is getting married, and it’s the first time I’ve taken my partner with me. It’s the first time I’m going to introduce a partner to my extended family. It’s a great time to do it because it’s a wedding. There’s alcohol, so if people want to forget, I may have to do this again. I might have to also consider the fact that I may have to go through this again, because people may not remember what transpired. 

For my family, I think this is when you’re the “OG” — the original gay — of the family, there’s no other [person] in that center of the family. When I came out, there were preconceived ideas about what people were like, what lesbians were, and how they behaved. I guess that, for me, was kind of hard to navigate. You kind of lock yourself in such scrutiny when you’re coming out because it’s obviously [in my culture] illegal. You [get] thrown into jail for 20 years [in Sri Lanka] if you are. Our culture is very heavily built on the tradition of heterosexual marriage.

It’s something that I also see holistically. It would be very hard for people who’ve grown up in that environment or in that country, with that set of culture and traditions around, to understand. I think, for me, the positive thing was I had places like JOY. I had places like Bent TV. They were where I had a community. I had a supportive social circle, as well. If I didn’t have those things, I think I probably would still be a closeted woman living in New York. Maybe not in New York, but maybe some part of Melbourne, hidden away. I don’t know what my fate would have been like. It goes to show the power of community and how important it is to feel like you are seen and belong.

Doria: It’s so true. I have two Gen Z daughters and I’m schooled every day about how I speak. I’m grateful for it, sometimes. It’s very true, we live in a very heteronormative society where there are just certain assumptions that we internally make that are based on gender, which is the vital construct. 

Ginni: Yeah, exactly. It’s not something, I think, that some people intentionally do. It’s just, again, you’ve grown up around a certain language so you adopt that language until you are shown, taught, or experience otherwise. 

Doria: Of course.

Ginni: I think to your point, to go back to your question about my family — my extended family found out via Bent TV. This is something I really want to unpack. 

Bent TV is a channel that a lot of different communities watched; it’s like [a] community TV station. Bent TV was on Monday night. For some reason, my aunt was watching it, she saw me and apparently she heard me say — which I didn’t say — “My name is Ginni and I’m a lesbian.” That started this whole grapevine. She told my uncle, then my other aunt was called — it went through the whole thing.

Doria: Oh, my goodness.

Ginni: So, that was the thing [and] that’s how people found out. A family member said to me, “Look, I got a call from an auntie who said: ‘You might get some calls about Ginni’s sexuality.’” The family member at the time played dumb, but, of course, she knew and she didn’t say [anything] to me. I do believe [that] it was from a place of, “I’m scared for you and how you’ll be judged,” but also “I don’t mind you being this way. I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t want you to be that way in public [but] you have to understand that we live here, too.” When I look back at that, I’m like, “Okay, there was probably a more appropriate way to respond.” It’s that progress, right? You have to start off somewhere to get to another point. That family member since has been a lot more open. The language is a little bit more kind. In time, that was a moment where you talk about pivots — I could have gone right back into the closet. 

Doria: Wow!

Ginni: It’s hard to remember. It was just before I was going to film something at Bent TV and I was crying on the way there. I was like “I’m going to do this but could this be my last gig or the last thing I ever do publicly about being a lesbian or being out?” 

I remember I had an interview with this group that was performing something in Melbourne. In the end, one of the singers said to me, “You’re a really good interviewer. I really loved this show. It’s been one of my favorites.” I think, for me, that was a sign that there was no turning back. I had to keep going. That was the encouragement that I needed. Again, it was the community.

Doria: Yeah, absolutely. It’s community that raises you up. It’s so true.

Ginni: Exactly.

Doria: To go back to what you said, though, you said that she heard you say “I’m Ginni and I’m a lesbian,” but you didn’t say it.

Ginni: I don’t think I’ve ever felt the need to publicly declare that, I think. I [had] talked before [and] mentioned the hidden copy of Cheri Magazine I have under my covers. I think that’s what she heard. It was interesting because I watched that interview and I didn’t say [what she heard]. I want to find out what she was doing watching TV on a Monday night like that.

Doria: There’s the question.

Ginni: She kind of dodged a bullet there, right? We’ll unpack that at this cousin’s wedding.

Doria: Yes, exactly, get ready for that because that is coming like a torpedo for you!

Ginni: Exactly.

Preferred Mediums

Doria: You’ve been a host on so many mediums. You’ve done radio, podcasting, and television. Is there a medium that you like best?

Ginni: I love podcasting. I think I love audio media. I think radio is the grandparent or ancestor of podcasting. I think the intimacy and the autonomy it gives both sides of the space — the host is able to talk about anything — you can talk about how much you love Buffy the Vampire Slayer — and there’ll be people who listen.

I love the New York Knicks. I could do a whole podcast on the comments the Knicks fans leave after a game. That’s something that people will listen to.

Doria: I think you should. I think that would do really well, actually. 

Ginni: Exactly Kicks for Knicks or something like that. I think the other part of it is, for the listener [it] gives full autonomy. When TV started going to on-demand TV, when you could watch TV shows when you wanted to, rather than the network saying “Hey, Monday, at 7:30, you got to watch Full House otherwise you’ve got to wait for the reruns,” and all that.  

I think when podcasting came, it was the same as radio. I think it gave the listener full autonomy. What I think is different from TV, that radio or audio wasn’t used to, was it just opened up a whole world of more audiences. When you’re on FM radio, you’re in a certain geography; there’s only a certain amount of people that you can reach. If you love Paula Abdul or if you love some of the cast from Queer as Folk, you put [the podcast] on iTunes — at the time, it was iTunes. It just opens up a whole world in the LGBTQ+ community since those interviews. That’s what I found with podcasting and that’s why I love it so much.

Doria: So true. It’s a huge community. 

The Gender Imbalance in Podcasting

Doria: One of the things that I was looking up that kind of bothered me — and I’ve heard this before but I didn’t quite understand how bad it was, at least based on this statistic — 33 percent of podcasters are female. When Quartz analyzed 360 individual podcasts with 480 hosts, 33 percent presented as women. That means only a third of podcast hosts are women. That bothers me. What’s up with the gender imbalance? Why do you think it exists? 

Ginni: Yeah, I think this is interesting. You know the saying, “How you do anything is how you do everything”? I don’t think that’s always true in all circumstances, but look at it in general in workplaces — the gender imbalance for pay. I’m not surprised that translated into podcasting or content creation. I think the way women are judged by the way that they look, the way that they sound, and the way that they present themselves is far more critical still than how men are. Then, to have the community to — excuse my French — have balls, spine, or backbone to keep going and combat that. Not everybody can do that or everybody may not want to climb. A lot more mountains and obstacles are put in front of women to get to the creation stage where they can be themselves, create fairly, and have the resources or the community to get there. I think that’s one of the reasons.

Another reason is we are now at a stage that, if you look at women in the workplace for the first time in history, women are able to have the big three: we’re able to work, have thriving careers, and have a family, as well. Concurrently to that, we’re also able to have access to a thriving healthy lifestyle. We’ve got access to great health resources. Forty, 50, or 60 years ago — maybe longer than that — my grandmother couldn’t apply for a credit card.

Doria: That’s so crazy.

Ginni: Women are in a place where we can do those three things and we’re still figuring out what that looks like for us. It’s like a pivoting point of evolution, too. 

Doria: It is, you’re right. It is a pivot and you also kind of mentioned this, which is also true — representation. I didn’t have a stat on LGBTQ+, but what I did find was that 11.5 percent [of podcasters] could be classified as non-white. That’s one in 10. I mean, again, wow! Goddamn it. Why are we not leveling the playing field? But we are. We are. One conversation at a time.

Ginni: Yeah, exactly.

Pivoting to the U.S.

Doria: You are an entrepreneur. You moved to the U.S. Let’s talk about that pivot. What drew you here?

Ginni: Sure, I went to radio in my 20s. I did lots of experimenting careerwise; I tried a lot of [different] careers. I was a deli assistant [and] I [worked] around cured meats. Then, I was a trampoline park party host. I got to jump on trampolines every day. I got to make silly jokes with kids and be silly. It was one of the best jobs I’ve ever had. At Space Era, I constructed parts for airlines, as well. That was a thing that I did on the side of all that. 

Doria: You have so many pivots!

Ginni: Yeah, in my 20s, I tried on a few different things. What was hard for me was [working] in corporate America. I had two jobs in commercial radio, which was more the sales and ad management side. What I noticed was the corporate side of work did not work for me. I was doing all the creativity in radio [that] I loved. I thought I just needed to find a job in commercial radio and I’ll go — via the ad side — into programming. That was what I thought because that was where the money was. I was very heavily misguided. 

Though in those 10 years, I had different jobs and did different things, having a radio show was something I kept consistently throughout [everything]. For me, I needed to try different things to be like, “This allows me to do this.” If I didn’t have a radio show, I wouldn’t be able to go to America and meet different people over there. I had a community. It was juggling [a lot] for me.

My biggest pivot that came in my 20s was that the corporate job and the corporate lifestyle weren’t for me. It’s basically nine-to-five, but that wasn’t my experience. It’s never nine-to-five; it’s seven-to-seven. 

Doria: Yes, it’s whenever they want you. 

Ginni: Exactly. I think also that it was very much like, “You need to be here at 8:30 and we need to talk, have a meeting every day about what you’re doing. We need to go around the table and talk about what you’re doing.” You’re micromanaging me, because you’re incompetent to manage a whole team. There are just things I did not agree with. I’m not dissing that nine-to-five lifestyle. That works for some people.

Doria: Yeah, I agree. It does.

Ginni: I knew there was another way of working, which would give me more space to do what I wanted to. I wanted to go to the gym. I wanted to be healthy. I wanted to have a decent night’s sleep. I did not want to worry about this meeting where we had to discuss every time we sneezed every morning. I didn’t see how that improved the bottom line. It was just like a thing they did because they were told to.

Doria: Yeah, exactly.

Ginni: I knew this didn’t work for me. I tried shiftwork, which is where the deli assistant, party host, and space job came in. I got to do those and that was great.

Doria: Side hustles. Nice.

Ginni: Yeah. I got to clock in and clock off at a time. I got to leave work at work, and I got to do radio shows on the side. I got to travel. I also got to start my own podcast when that was happening. 

I also got my first business that actually failed pretty dismally. I lost money.

Saraswati’s First Business

Doria: The event business?

Ginni: Yes, I had an event company called Blink. I started it because I saw that events were hot at the time. I didn’t have any experience running a business. I thought I’d just start and model off what I see and observe. 

I also noticed that every time I did it, there was something heavy but I kept ignoring it, kept going, and kept trying. I remember getting to the end of it like, “This does not feel right.” I [decided I was] going to discontinue it and focus back on what I love — which is radio. 

What I learned from Blink — it was like going through a business degree — is that if you’re in it just for the money and there’s no greater vision, purpose, or something that drives you, it’s just a temporary fix.

There were holes I was trying to plug in. For some reason, the team I attracted wasn’t aligned with what I wanted. Nothing’s going to go right if that is the case. Also, my overall want of it was for approval and wanting to please other people. That’s not what I want. It was a great business. 

Doria: You didn’t have to pay for the MBA. I feel like so many people have started businesses where they fail, but they learn so much from them. That’s where the best learning comes from. Also, knowing things about yourself. I’m a people pleaser too, and I’m trying to keep that in check all the time because it can work against me in certain situations. 

Moving Forward and Moving to New York

Doria: You went from there, as I understand it, to what you’re doing today — which is so cool. Tell us about that. 

Ginni: Yeah, exactly. Sure, so I was working at Space Era. I was traveling to New York every year. The first time I came to New York was in 2011. I remember walking into Times Square and I [was] like, “Wow, like this is unlike anywhere else I’ve ever been.”

Doria: That’s for sure.

Ginni: I really just fell in love with the city. Ever since 2011, I was coming back to America every year. I was just going to New York and immersing myself in creativity. I was like, “I want to live here one day.” 

I was working away at my job. Traveling here, I started to build my community. Some of the people who I had interviewed on the radio show lived here, too. We’re friends now. They’re still in my community. 

It just made sense for me to move over here. It was one of those things where I think it felt like a lot of media traction was happening here in the States that I wasn’t quite seeing in Australia. New York is a capital of podcasting. The avenues here to be able to access creativity studios and resources are just not comparable to anywhere. It’s incredible.

So, I was like, “Alright, I’m going to move here.” I started looking at what visas I could get and what I needed. I decided as a side hustle — the early stages of Ginni Media — I was going to edit shows. I was producing show notes and doing artwork. I was like, “I need five clients to be able to afford to live in New York.” I [got] five clients and was like, “Let’s move!” I handed in my resignation from the Space Era job, and two months later I was in a place with all my stuff. I had three suitcases. Then, here I was in Brooklyn.

Doria: So, that was your proof of concept, really? You did the five clients to see if there was an appetite for what you did, and the affordability of it, and that worked out. You have some really impressive clients — Cynthia Rowley, Allure, Siemens? Then, you have a ton of entrepreneurs, as well. It’s not that you’re just doing corporate podcasts. How did you find [them]? Does it come to you? How does that all work?

Ginni: That’s a great question. Ginni Media [has] grown primarily on referral clients.

Doria: That’s awesome.

Ginni: I haven’t done any paid advertising. I am a little old school when it comes to scalability and customer service. I believe that scalability or growth should not supersede quality, personability, and connection.

Doria: Amen!

Ginni: Podcasting is about building community, having a conversation, connecting, and listening in all varying forms. It’s also about creating this space where you can have conversations around your specific interest. You can listen to it whenever you want and talk about it however you want to. There is that beauty of it, as well. 

There is also some muddiness that comes with that freedom. Sometimes people do broadcast things that are quite dangerous, but that’s another story. 

It’s very important for me to “walk the walk.” That’s very important that my team and I are aligned with that, as well. We do “walk the walk”’ with connection, kindness, conversation, and communication. I think that’s been a real cornerstone of our growth. You’ve got to be patient. 

I know a lot of startups say, “Alright, I want to sell my startup in three years. I want to scale it as big as possible.” That’s one way of working [and that] works for some people. For me, I want something long term, so it’s going to take more time, going to need a lot more patience, but, so far, it’s growing. That’s the value or the destination that I’m heading toward.

Doria: Yes, right. It’s like the relationship in sales, in a way. I think that’s so much more valuable — the authenticity of that. As long as you’re building something and creating something that you care about, you can sustain yourself and you’re getting the message out into the community and world, then that’s amazing.

Ginni: Yeah, exactly. I think at the end of the day, we are servicing who we need to in terms of what they actually require. If you treat your customers in a certain way and you treat your team in a completely different way, there’s some energy that’s missing. Something is missing a line. 

You lead by example, [which] is something that I scoffed at in my 20s. We don’t watch what leaders do if we’re in that much proximity to them, day in and day out. If I expect this to be done and I do the complete opposite, people aren’t going to trust me. If I’m saying how you need to build community and connection — you need to be kind and patient —- you’ve got to really live and die by your own sword. That’s another part of growing a business, too. 

Doria: Yes, very very much so. There’s some unpredictability to it. You don’t really necessarily know each month what’s going to happen. I guess you’re at a point probably where you have more continuity, but certainly [not] at the beginning.

Ginni: Yeah, exactly.

Saraswati on Monetization

Doria: I did want to quickly go over monetization because I think that is something that a lot of individual podcasters struggle with. In your opinion, what do you think is the most effective way to monetize? Is it programmatic reading? Patreon is one that I know. What do you think works?

Ginni: Sure, that’s a great question. I think it’s a common question that I get. The way that I answer it is, now, more than ever, in terms of monetization options, like podcasting platforms, including programmatic is a part of your subscription, which is great. If you are working on a podcast, you know there is some opportunity for you to monetize the traditional round of ads, sponsorships, reads, and that sort of thing. That’s one route but I would encourage people that have a podcast. That’s one way to get some money that you don’t have to do much heavy lifting. The programmatic team on that particular hosting service will take care of linking things and adding mid-roll per roll for you. That’s kind of like a low-hanging fruit there.

Doria: Are you able to control it?

Ginni: Of course. I think Spotify got into trouble for this a while back. They had a podcast about being sober and they played alcohol ads. That’s completely missing a line with the messaging. It’s very poor advertising control on their behalf. It looks bad on behalf of the podcast, but they had no control over it. 

I do believe certain podcasting platforms do. I know that Cast does this, too. If you do message their team and say one ad [from] these categories you put in, you can control that in that way.

Doria: Exactly, totally. Like cigarettes or vaping or whatever.

Ginni: Exactly, cigarettes, abortion ads, or whatever it might be like. I remember at the time — because my name is Ginni — they asked if I wanted stuff about Vagisil. I was like, “I don’t want to be talking about Vagisil.” Can you imagine the trouble I would get into?

Doria: Oh, yeah. I know what it is. It’s the Vagisil girl.

Ginni: The other way to monetize [that] I would encourage podcasters [to] look at how the podcast fits into their life or their business. Sometimes podcasters do [it as] hobbies. Podcasters don’t necessarily have a business, but sometimes people do have a business around it. Think about how that fits into that part of your life or business. Then, try to see other ways that you can monetize your podcast. 

Your podcast can be a leverage as like a press pass. You can go to events, interview keynote speakers, build relationships, and who knows — that might turn into a sponsorship deal and relationship. 

The other thing that people don’t talk about is you can use a podcast as a way to get in front of your ideal client. If I were a podcast producer, I would pitch myself saying, “Hey, I have a podcast. I’d love to give a keynote speech for free. Can you have me come speak at your event?” I get in front of my ideal client. Also, even though I wasn’t paid a speaking fee, I will very likely convert a client there. There are things that you can do that way. 

Doria: Oh, that’s so smart.

Ginni: The other way to monetize is to think about what you can do for your audience. 

Doria: Yeah, what problem can you solve, right?

Ginni: If you’re a coaching business, I’m sure you get three frequently asked questions: “How do I streamline my business?” or “How do I organize the morning routine of my day?” or “What resource could you give them?” It has to be actually trustworthy advice, so I actually want to follow it so that you build that trust, community, and patience. Also, remember, podcasting is a long-term game.

Doria: Yes.

Ginni: I’ve noticed a lot of podcasts treat it like it’s Netflix. It’s a long-term game to look at it that way too and what that looks like financially.

Doria: Absolutely. That makes so much sense. The very last question — before you tell us where we can find out all the amazing things that you’re up to — is one of the things that really stands out about you is [that] you’re a woman that loves to laugh. That’s unusual and I don’t see that a lot. I wonder if you’ve always been that way. Do you use comedy as a way to effect change or do you not? I’m curious.

Ginni: I love that. I appreciate that. It was important for me because life was so serious up until I was like 13 or 14. My parents got divorced when I was very young. My sister got married young. All sorts of terrible things happened. My mom was in the hospital. A lot of things happened [for me] between the ages 2 and 12. That’s your formative years. I remember I felt like that spirit that was in me watching the unknown relative shake the coconut tree — I felt that spirit of me, of curiosity and excitement and [that] childlike spirit, was just kind of squandered.

I remember meeting my best friend when I was about 13 or 14. She was silly. The stuff she would do would make everybody laugh. She did not care what people thought. I was super quiet. When I met her, I learned to laugh at myself a bit and not take myself so seriously. I think, again going back to the community and having people around you who can foster that joy. I think if you can come from a place of happiness and joy, [it impacts] the way that you look at things and life. 

It’s a lot weirder to be reflection-based rather than criticism-based. I could look at my experience and be like, “Well, that was shit. I lost all this money!” I look at it, instead, from, “I didn’t have fun. It wasn’t joyful. I met some cool people and that was great. I learned so much.” I know I was an idiot because I was trying to people please, but I have compassion for myself now. I also know that doesn’t work in business and that’s why I have the opposite effect. I think joy is a great teacher because it does keep pushing you forward. Once you get joy or how [much] comes along, you really do connect with what are the next steps. It changes every day. Joy is a great teacher, in that sense.

Connect with Ginni Media

Doria: I love that. That is a perfect place to end our hopefully continuing conversation. If you could, let my audience know where they can find out more about you.

Ginni: Thank you so much. They can find me [if they] go to ginnimedia.com. Check out our website. You can hit me up on Instagram at @ginnimedia or @theginnishow [or Facebook or Twitter]. I do check my DMs. My team does too, but I will be there to respond. 

Thank you so much for having me on SheVentures. This has been a blast. Thank you for your insight and thoughtful questions. I love them!

Doria: Oh, absolutely, thank you for leading a really exciting life. That really helps!

Ginni: Thank you, Doria.