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Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

Intro:

Doria Lavagnino: Data science has traditionally left out Black Americans. The result is centuries of faulty, inaccurate, and even harmful information collected about communities not only across the nation but across the world. What if we could start to rebuild communities and eliminate poverty using a data-led approach that’s more inclusive of the voices and experiences of more Brown and Black people? Our guest today is trying to accomplish exactly that! 

She’s a 20-year veteran in marketing, communications, and operations who pivoted to become founder and principal of FordMomentum!, a firm that uses an MIT-informed system to fight systemic issues she’s witnessed and likely experienced — and she’s here today to speak about her work! Maya Ford, welcome to SheVentures!

Maya Ford: Thank you, Doria. Great to see and hear you!

Doria: Yes, absolutely. Thank you for doing this podcast in the midst of moving, no less. [It] shows your ability to be very agile!

Maya: That’s one of those cool components of the 21st century. I say that “complexity is the new black.”
Doria: I like that!

Background Overview 

Doria: Let’s start with a brief overview of your background. I’m so curious how that led you to start and create FordMomentum!

Maya: I’m an all-American girl. I was born and raised in Texas and then in Florida. I’m the kid of an immigrant father and an American mother. That developed a lot of my life experiences. When you’re a kid, you’re not in control. You’re doing what the environment tells you to do so that you can survive. Then, hopefully, you’ll have this life where you can thrive. 

Turns out that I was really curious as a kid. I grew up in a very naturalistic environment where I was always camping, fishing, [and] doing things outdoors. I was always riding my bicycle [and] all of these things that America says Black people don’t do, I did very naturally. 

I grew up vegetarian. My mother was a biology teacher. She always loved science. I grew up bilingual — all of these things that America constantly says that Blacks or Hispanics don’t do.

As I moved into my career in marketing and communications, I would always be the one who challenged [like] where do we get that information from or who said that? That’s not what we do.

I don’t tend to hang out or pay attention to a lot of comedians. Comedy is only funny to me when it’s something that people actually do. Oftentimes, I would hear things that were racist or biased jokes that were things that those cultures didn’t even do. It became a part of my confidence [and] temperament to challenge that, but also to ask, “If it’s not this, then what is it instead?

FordMomentum! stems from that — more from curiosity and wanting to get it right with people. Are we calling this thing the same thing? Do we value the same thing? Are we operating on the same path? What happens is that leads into the more traditional concepts of leadership and goal setting, change management. It tackles a lot of issues at once, and it’s just part of my natural character.

Doria: It reminds me of how, when we think about history, it’s written by the people typically who are in control — and so, so many voices are ignored. That’s been many people’s experience over and over again.

Starting FordMomentum!

Doria: I wanted to know, how did you start FordMomentum!? Firstly, let’s talk about it in layperson’s terms, can you explain how it’s different than what typical data collection would be?

Maya: The 21st century is such a great time for tools — and really the end of the 20th century was, as well. We have this onslaught of social media. With social media platforms, you had more interpersonal data than we had ever seen before. It was amassed by the billions. No one knew what to do with it. If you have someone who’s interpreting the information improperly, or they don’t even know what to look for, you’re missing out on what data is good for, right? 

I liken it to baking a cake. What type of cake do you want to bake? What type of ingredients will you need? If you have these amazing ingredients and you don’t even know what they’re for, you’re missing out, right? It’s the same thing. Ultimately, I was working in public healthcare [and] community healthcare, which was such an exciting job that constantly pivots. I love this topic [of] pivoting.

Doria: Yes!

Maya: I was managing a marketing and communications department. We did some really deep work in HIV prevention and taboo. Taboo is a very powerful thing because it brings shame. It talks about a lot of social, economic, [and] emotional concepts. These are things that the data might have kind of these prolific journals, but not necessarily community data that solve regional or local problems. 

We found a lot of success using “this model” — I’m using air quotes with “this model.” It’s a scientific method. I grew up in the scientific world. I was able to apply that locally, and we got remarkable results. I also noticed that it didn’t hurt. A lot of times people don’t like change because they feel that it’s going to hurt. This allowed us to be able to move change along where people might have some trepidation [and] a little bit of friction, which is very natural. You have to have that for growth. Ultimately, when they got to the other side, they were like, “My God, we did that.” It created a stronger sense of cohesion. 

I left that organization because the leadership was really poor. They were benefiting from my innovation, curiosity, strong leadership, [and] model. The executive director screamed at me one day and was like, “What the eff are you asking me this for?” It was highly inappropriate. That executive director had gotten away with that for years. I had to practice my own model to ask myself, “What are my standards for how I’m conducting this work?” If I’m willing to give away what I know works, what I practice, and what I firmly believe in, is it my fault or is it their fault? 

That’s where I had to take ownership of my own guidance [and] ability and bet on myself. I did that. It wasn’t easy — it’s never easy. When I cashed out, I was 39 years old, and I said, “You got to do this now, girl. If you fail, you can go get a job, but you’ll learn something.” I cashed out my 401(k), and I did it. I messed up a lot. I spent a lot of that money on things that were not necessary, but we’re still here today to talk about it. 

Doria: I love that. I always love when people are willing to admit that they’ve messed up.

​​Learning From Mistakes

Doria: If there are one or two things that you could tell an entrepreneur that are areas that you feel you wish you hadn’t done, what would they be?

Maya: Mentorship! It doesn’t have to be in your field. One thing I did very well, and I’ve done this throughout my career, is I’ve been intentional about having diverse mentors. I have two women and three men, all of different ethnicities. Three of them are not U.S. born. All of them either work for major conglomerates or are entrepreneurs. This helped me tremendously. You have to practice, stop, and then pivot. Practice, stop, pivot. It’s all about practice. 

The other thing I would do is be very conscientious about how you’re spending money and don’t do it without a plan. You want to see very specific results. For example, I knew that I was doing this great work. We had big ideas to make this a global platform and to try to even go for the Nobel level, which is very complicated. I’m a for-profit business, right? I’m not a nonprofit. We have to have an educational space. There are all of these layers. 

I needed help through publicity. We set very specific goals with a professional to help us figure out this strategy. That professional did such a remarkable job. We set out an 18-month plan. They accomplished that in six months

Doria: Oh, crap!

Maya: We had to know where we were going. Strategy — even if it doesn’t work, get a strategy. Don’t trust your instinct alone. Trust your instinct and work with professionals. 

The last thing is to be willing to work with the best people for as long as you can. I was able to hire a brilliant young designer [and] corporate infrastructure architect for pennies on the dollar because she took an interest in what I did. She did this with FordMomentum! while she was looking for full-time work. That system that she developed carried me through where I am today. Seven years in now, I need to redevelop the system. I was able to hire the best in class. I only got to keep her for six months. It didn’t matter. She set me up.

Doria: I love that. That’s incredible. You’re right, if you’re intentional in looking for things, you will find what you need. It may not be how you expect it or in the package you expect it, but it will show up. 

Maya: Yeah, that’s a great point! Don’t be so fixed on one way to do things. As someone who probably leans more toward Type A, it’s very easy to get caught in how I want to see it. I’ve had to learn to go for the root cause, be flexible, and be open to learning in different ways. I’ve been so well rewarded for that. That’s a great point, Doria.

Doria: Absolutely. Learning is key, right? Being humble and knowing that — I make 100 mistakes a day, but it means I’m learning, right? 

Maya: Exactly.

Doria: Entrepreneurship is probably the most humbling experience anyone ever has.

Standard of Love

Doria: I learned a little bit about STOLO. I hoped you could talk about that and how it is different than how data is collected. The only examples that I can think of, as a journalist, are the Census or the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Maya: Yes, those are great ones. We need both. What I think America does well is it innovates very quickly. What I think America doesn’t do well is nuance. What we learn is that the devil is in the details. The author who wrote Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff died of a heart attack on an airplane. Prevention is a pound of cure. Those are really important things to how residents and citizens live their lives today. America’s nuance is what makes us feel loved and cared for and not a cog in the system, even though it’s a massive system. 

What we do well is we have these great tools for big data collection. They’re still fundamentally not good at isolating smaller concerns in regional areas. That’s important because the United States is vast. We have a lot of tools, resources, and assets that need careful attention. Economics 101 is about maximizing the tools and resources that you have as an asset. If you gloss it over and don’t get into the benefit or the value of those assets, then you’re missing out on whole opportunities to control your utility. STOLO’s a model that allows us to do that at a local level. It could be applied at a regional or national level if you’re talking about a population. 

A good example is radio. Right now, we don’t carry radio statistics to the same detail for Hispanic populations or Black populations as we do for Anglo populations, right? When you’re talking about radio advertising or data sets in other newer platforms like online radio, you’re missing out on whole elements of language, what people consider important to them, [or] what their assets are. That, to me, is not good marketing. It’s shoddy and sloppy because we have the tools to do it.

Doria: Absolutely.

Maya: Standard of love, or STOLO, is really about identifying the standards that communities have. We’re asking them what makes them feel loved. Love means different things to different people. It’s not all the Victorian principled idea today of like: wife at home, picket fence, three kids, a dog, and husband and wife. We’re seeing that language is nuanced. It’s changing whether you like it or not.

Doria: Right!

Maya: We need to have a model that allows people to feel safe in the environments that they’re developing. It’s a really easy model. It’s free to use. It’s like the scientific method — the scientific method doesn’t tell you if your theory is right or wrong. It carries you through the steps to identify whether or not you might be able to debunk your theory or prove it. 

STOLO is the same thing. It’s asking you to be very clear about what it is that you’re talking about. Then, it’s asking you to weigh its value and how much it’s worth to you. How much you would protect it for, what would you do to make sure that it’s reproducible or not reproducible, right? That’s a basic utility. 

Then, it’s asking you about self-esteem. When I talked about how I felt in the management at the community health center, that was about my self-esteem. I was doing the work, but these elements were not compensating me emotionally, economically, or physically to be able for me to carry it forward in a sustainable way. That’s where self-esteem comes in — do something that helps you to protect that and protect yourself. When you get that in order, then you can move into the economic power of it. When you move into economic power or sustainability, it’s not all money. That’s about a whole series of currencies at play when you get that balance — when you have justice, fairness, peace, closure, and completion, right? It’s a cycle. 

Doria, what we’re learning is it’s dynamic. It offers a way for people to be authentically seen, heard, and accountable to themselves, and then their communities.

Doria: I love it.

My Home Is Here Project

Doria: I know that you did a project in Houston. It might give more of a practical framework to see how STOLO works, the results that you got, how you were able to implement them, or, I guess, make recommendations. I’m not quite sure how it all works.

Maya: That’s a good question. People are having a hard time putting two and two together. You get paid to go ask these questions for people, and then what happens to the data? What we do is we go in ahead of planning so that in a mathematical equation — we say garbage in, garbage out. If you have the wrong numbers in your equation, you’re going to get the wrong answer. In this case, we’re putting in the right variables, details, and communications elements, so that you get the right outcome. 

We went to Harris County, which is the third largest county in the nation. More than 5 million people live there — I don’t know how many square miles — but it incorporates more than 34 cities. The city of Houston is two-thirds of that. Houston’s this big chunk of it, and then there are 33 other cities.

Doria: Okay, gotcha.

Maya: We go, and it’s a very diverse place. You have multiple languages; Spanish and English being the most predominant, but you’ve got Urdu, Tagalog, Vietnamese, Chinese, and French. You have [people from] a lot of East and West African nations. People are leaning on the government and their municipalities; local community organizations and businesses to do a lot. It’s a very dynamic space because it’s so large. It’s also a very chaotic space.

Doria: Yes.

Maya: This project was focused on housing. We titled it “My Home Is Here” because people are living here and you want to protect them. Everyone deserves that. We went to ask: What makes home accessible for you? Viable, sustainable, happy, healthy, safe, innovative, and allows you to have access to the future of work. We did this throughout the county using different methods of communication. We used radio, television, and gamification, which was a new tool. It worked brilliantly.

Doria: That’s brilliant. I love it.

Maya: It was fascinating. Then, we did the good old human touch. We had interviews [and] focus groups. We’re collecting all of this data. We’re splitting it according to STOLO and the variables that the client, Harris County, needed to make a plan for housing for the next 10 years. 

This is vital for this region because it suffers from a lot of environmental shocks. In the past seven years, it’s had two hurricanes and five floods that have been devastating to the community. People are still suffering from the constant blowback. It’s just wave after wave. The country and the federal government have to come up with a way to keep people safe and design housing that works. What we did informed that plan. 

That plan now is being implemented through some great components that look at equity, safety, affordability, [and] housing infrastructure. How much housing can you put in an area so that it’s not too dense, but dense enough to maximize the resources for everyone? Are you looking out for seniors? Are you looking out for young people? Are you lowering environmental risk by not forcing people to drive vehicles? Are you making it inclusive so that a Maya can grow from entry-level to senior executive and then go back to living in the same community as a senior? These are all elements that inform the plan. 

They’ve begun by doing some pretty prolific things that are controversial but the right thing to do. We’ll start to see this roll out more and more over the decade, but we informed the details that they needed to build the plan upon. 

Doria: That’s exciting and cool. How long does it take, from start to finish, to do a project like that? It must also be expensive.

Maya: Harris County is a big beast. The entire study was $4 million. Our portion in communications was $1.5 million. We used the majority of that on mass communication: digital, radio, and outdoor advertising. It was the middle of COVID, so we didn’t get to do as much of the human element as we would prefer. We did some innovative work by using digital kits to employ local residents. We trained them to do this [type of] work. We practiced circular economics, which keeps the money in a region by working with local people. That was very successful. It took about 18 months. 

Now, for example, we’re doing this work in Las Vegas and El Paso. Those are smaller regions. You can do the work in about nine months. It’s really up to the community. We want everyone to have skin in the game so the municipality is there to serve residents — which municipalities forget sometimes. It’s also the job of residents to inform municipalities of what it is that they want. We are the bridge to help those two things happen.

Doria: Do you typically get leads from government RFPs or is it word of mouth? How does that work?

Maya: It’s a little bit of both in the seven years that we’ve been doing this. We find that we’re not a solo product or service. We always partner. That’s what we’re really good at in the pivoting.

I call our team pollinators. Bees are our brand and [they] are brilliant in nature because they’ve got little pockets on their legs to collect pollen, which is data. That data is being transferred among all of the different elements in a region. They’re doing that very quickly. They’re communicating with each other intuitively. They have a system. They can heat up and create warmth. They can huddle together. They can kind of leave drips of information. They design communications networks. We do the same thing. Every single move we make is mimicking nature; we’re mimicking elements of what’s happening in nature. We’ve even designed strategies that mimic COVID. We’re paying attention because we, as humans, are a part of nature. We’re constantly doing this. 

What we find is that the pollination works in a lot of different ways. Sometimes, Doria might say, “Hey, this is out of our scope and we don’t know how to address this issue. I know a lady — let’s call her Maya. Let’s see if Maya can get to this population that doesn’t trust anyone, is very concerned, or difficult to reach. What might she recommend?” We’re able to serve in that way. 

It could be a larger, more organized effort where you’ve got to have a very specific type of recorded data that has got some legal elements. We’re very familiar with how to do that with a county, state, or federal organization agency. We get in there and we work with the larger teams to collaborate there. Our strength is being nimble, being curious, and not being afraid to fail. We have integrity, we’re healthy, [and] we provide a lot of self-care. Most of the work we’re doing is going into the intricacies of people’s dislikes, concerns, or traumas. We spend a lot of time on rest. I actually take a nap every day.

Doria: So smart.

Maya: We have to take care of ourselves so that we can be ready to serve others. It works. We work to serve and to get this model out because we believe that it can create a new sense of order. We’re not saying that order has to be right or wrong, but we do need to organize it differently in the 21st century.

Doria: Yes, I agree. I love how nuanced all of the questions that you’ve brought up are.

Commenting on the Census

Doria: It’s interesting what you said about the census. I’ve filled out the census before, and it’s very factual. There is no nuance in it at all. I can see how it’s missing so many key points about people’s lives. It doesn’t even see it.

Maya: Something like the census is done every decade, so there are a lot of changes. When you get a major storm in your region — let’s say it’s three years into the census — people have left or are moving in to conduct reconstruction. You still need to provide in those gaps. I’m not saying that the census doesn’t have its place.

Doria: Of course.

Maya: I would say the census is like a house, but each room in the home has a different purpose. You might need to change those rooms daily, monthly, by season, or quarterly, to be able to meet your needs. The United States is a great place because we have all the tools and resources to do that today. Whereas 20 years ago, they were still very clunky. Now, they’re not. 

When we talk about inclusion, the biggest problem for me — it’s what got me into this work, to begin with — is that the values that are important to me as a Black Latina were never included in that foundation. One of the most unfair things I think in the census or any demographic survey is the block of Asians. It says, “Are you Black, non-Hispanic, Anglo, Asian, Indigenous, or South Pacific Islander?” Do you know how many countries and nationalities fit “Asian?” It lacks nuance. It’s so unfair. There’s a complete and utter difference between a Pakistani to a Vietnamese.

Doria: Yes or even someone from India.

Maya: India and Pakistan are completely different religions, languages, [and] terrain. That’s still how we’re operating — the foundation is blocking “Asian” as one thing, even though India has outpaced China in population. These things, to me, are baffling. 

We know that if you can’t discern Indian, Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese people from Burma or Afghans, you’re not getting communications, right? We’re not just talking about production, consumption, [or] buying and selling things. You’re talking about millions of people who live together, who need to share basic natural resources and need to get along. If you’re going to have us get along, you have to include us in processes, policies, and the ability to produce and consume equitably. Otherwise, it’s not gonna work. 

We’re mandating this higher standard today as people who look like me. We’re not asking. We’re saying, “There’s another way, and we’re not looking to displace anyone, but you’re going to include us and we’re going to create a higher standard. Here are those elements that you need to include.”

Doria: Yes, incredible, and anyone can include them in their work.

Maya: It doesn’t hurt. It’s a “do no harm business.” Diversity only makes things better. It makes your products and your service stronger [and] tighter.

Doria: Oh, 100 percent.

Maya: Right, so it doesn’t hurt.

Measuring Success

Doria: How would you say that you, in the seven years that you’ve been doing this, measure success in your work?

Maya: Great question. We’re so early that we haven’t seen the development of what we are informing come to life. I can’t tell you if this was highly successful. “We informed this 10-year housing plan and look, it’s so diverse economically [and] ethnically!” I can’t tell you those things yet. What brings me the most joy and immediate satisfaction is when I get it right, people say they feel emotionally connected to the work because they see themselves reflected in it. If I can get you, Doria, to be like, “That’s right — you nailed it!” that’s awesome, and it’s been happening. When people can come to that space, see themselves, and be okay with seeing others, whether they agree or disagree, that is an inkling of getting it right. 

Some interesting things about what I don’t know is what happens when our standards cannot be met yet in an environment or if they’re too stringent and how does that impact our self-esteem? I’m going through that daily, right? I’m like, “Nope, I determined that this is my standard. I’m not bending and I know that it’s right. I’ve done all the work, but it doesn’t feel good. It doesn’t feel balanced because I can’t push it through yet. Either it doesn’t exist or I have a lot of stress with others to get it done. I feel isolated and alone in that.” I can’t tell if that’s a human thing, a leadership thing, or a temperament thing. There’s still a lot to work out to get it right. 

Usually, people ask us to come back because they feel that we do a good job of what’s called mirroring. We’re reflecting on you in an authentic, safe, healthy way.

Doria: Yes, I love that.

Mirroring and ChatGPT

Doria: I’ve been thinking a lot about that concept in a completely unrelated way with ChatGPT
Maya: Yes.

Doria: I like mirroring because I feel like what’s been happening a lot is hallucination or I don’t even know what to call it but it’s not reflective of anyone that I know and how they think. It’s remarkable to me that it’s gone on this way for so long

Maya: Yes, you’re giving me goosebumps because I completely agree with you. It’s ChatGPT. I’ve been doing a lot of practice with it and trying to understand its benefits. I love tools. The reason that I was even able to start this business was because the cost of entry for tools was so inexpensive. It was so low. A decade ago, if I needed an Adobe Suite account, it could be $10,000 for a license, whereas when I started this business, it got down to $600 a year. Tools are great to help us to be more human and that’s where we use them. They can also be a crutch. If you have the tool doing more than it needs to — I tell people, “You don’t use a jackhammer to get spinach out of your teeth, right?”

Doria: Right.

Maya: So don’t use that tool. It requires nuance.

Doria: Yeah.

Maya: I think the hallucination statement is real. I think that’s what’s been happening. The keyboard warrior can make us feel overconfident. As we’re reading very quickly, we’re not processing or you’re getting visuals.

Doria: Yes.

Maya: You need a moment to process. Humans are still very tactile. We’re social beings. If that pollination isn’t sticking, then it can create a form of mania. Those delusions are causing people a lot of stress. I don’t know how ChatGPT is going to fare in that either. It’s to be seen.

Doria: TBD, right?

Mental Health and Technology

Doria: It’s interesting that — and it could be association, not necessarily causation — we’re in a mental health crisis in this country. I’m not gonna blame it on technology because I don’t believe that, but I do believe that the authenticity of human interactions is an issue at play.

Maya: I agree. I don’t want to, but it’s just an overuse of a tool. Some of us are better prepared than others. 

I’ve suffered from mental health issues probably since I was a teenager from depression and college. I was suicidal. These are all things that are a part of my narrative and how I extend empathy, sympathy, and compassion in this work. I’ve had the blessing of getting support either through the medical system, therapy, or community because I’m open about my foibles as a human. I’m a human’s human. 

I think that when I have found myself being on social media and saying things like, “Can you believe Doria said that? How stupid. Why would she even do such and such? What a jerk. What’d you do to me, Doria?” You’re like, “I haven’t even seen you in years. What happened?” That’s when I had to get off — when I would find myself being on social media and being angry at things that didn’t even happen to me. I realized that it’s not a healthy part of my emotional well-being. Maybe it is for everyone else, but this isn’t a standard that I can uphold. It doesn’t improve my health or well-being. I think that we have to get to that point again of self-love and accountability. It’s not your fault, Doria. That’s my trigger for whatever reason. I have to be accountable to make sure that I’m not living in that space.

Doria: I love the fact that you’re authentic about mental health. I have had my journey with mental health issues. I think we need to talk about it to normalize it. Unfortunately, I feel that people get uncomfortable talking about it for various reasons. Thank you for that, firstly.

Maya: Thank you.

Doria: I also agree that it’s not technology. There’s an accountability that we have as people. At the end of the day, it’s: What is it that I can do to make the situation better, not just in regard to myself but as a community? 

The other thing that you said was about self-care. That’s something that has taken me so long to learn is essential. It’s not selfish. It’s necessary.

Maya: Yes.
Doria: I’m grateful that you brought that up.

Maya: I question how we perceive mental health in the United States relative to communications. I also question concepts like ADD, because I was diagnosed as an adult with attention deficit disorder.

Doria: Yeah, me too. I didn’t know. 

Maya: It makes a lot of sense, right? 

Doria: Yes.

Mental Health and Environment

Maya: I have lived abroad [and] what I argue is that the pace is slower in other places to where I’m not constantly splitting my attention; I’m allowed to slow down and focus on one thing at a time. Environment plays a lot in how we respond to our livelihood.

My mother is a dentist. She raised us with the reminder that a human only gets sick in like three ways: through the mouth, an orifice (eye, nose, ears, mouth, genitalia); environmental;or it’s in your DNA. The one thing that you can control the most is the orifice, right? Environment and DNA, you can’t control. Well, most of us can’t, right?

Doria: Yeah, right.

Maya: Some of us have enough privilege to be able to change our environments more frequently. When we think of it that way, from a human as a part of nature, then I think that we have to give credence to the accountability of managing our wellness in the way that we can.

STOLO can give us the opportunity to create some more boundaries in the environment. They’re not fixed because nature is constant chaos, but it allows us to at least create a shelter for ourselves that we know we want to move toward at all times.

Doria: I love that you said that. It made me reflect on what I had just said because it pathologizes unnecessarily. You’re right, it is so much about the environment, our accountability, and how we choose to interact with it, to your point as much as we can. Some of us don’t have a choice as to where we are at any given time.

Maya: Poverty limits our financial currency, resources, and assets. My work is seated in highlighting that there are other currencies at play and increasing their value so that you have more options to move around with.

Doria: Yes, absolutely.

Marginalized Communities and Accessibility

Doria: As technology evolves — we’ve talked a little bit about ChatGPT, and I’m sure there are many other things I don’t even know about — how do you think it will play out in terms of addressing marginalized communities? Is it going to help? Is it going to become inaccessible?

Maya: My studies through MIT’s DEDP program are focused on data, economics, and development policy. There are three baselines to people who are suffering from poverty. It’s inequitable access to tools and resources. It’s policies or laws that actually make that legal. Then, it’s not taking advantage of geographic assets. 

If you’re dealing with a population that is impoverished or suffering from poverty, the first way you want to tackle it is through that top tier and get access to tools, resources, and policies. You can also push from the bottom up, which is to inform or help people recognize that they probably have all the tools and resources that are not highlighted in front of them.

Doria: Right.

Maya: They could use those things to catapult, create, or displace the current economic framework to catapult themselves out of it.

Doria: I love that. 

Maya: Where I think it’s complicated is that people who are suffering from poverty spend a lot of time and effort just making it day by day. They don’t have a lot of time to improve their literacy. 

This is a space that FordMomentum! and STOLO don’t do well. We can access persons who are suffering from poverty but we have not figured out how to get them to slow down enough before they speed up. That’s really where it requires knowledge, education, and mass support. I think municipalities are starting to get a better handle on this concept, [and] that’s where we come in to work with [them].

Doria: That’s wonderful. What came to mind when you said that is Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. That very bottom one is if your basic needs are not being met, it is impossible to focus on the next level, which might be literacy.

Maya: Yes.

Doria: That makes perfect sense to me. I’m glad that you’re uncovering that.

Poverty and Pivoting

Maya: I spent six months in West Africa studying entrepreneurship, and global entrepreneurship with Lagos Business School. [It] was a remarkable opportunity in an effort to pivot because I see the vision. I’m really enjoying my time with you because I see us reflecting in each other. I needed that in a space that wasn’t the United States. Lagos is like organized chaos. I don’t know if you’ve been there — have you been there yet?

Doria: I’ve been there one time, like 20 years ago.

Maya: Girl, it hasn’t changed.

Doria: It was pretty chaotic, I will say that. 

Maya: It’s nuts and amazing!

Doria: Yeah.

Maya: One of the lessons I came home with is how courageous it is for people who are suffering from poverty to do everything it takes to get out.

Doria: Yeah.

Maya: That for them to get out is more than work. It was more than labor. It required probably that they stopped 90 percent of what they knew to do and they tried something radically different in ways that they had no idea how to do.

Doria: Yes.

Maya: This has been one of the greatest examples of courage. I brought that home because I think that more of us can stand to think like West Africans [and] Nigerians in that way.

Doria: Yes.

Maya: They’re willing to stop in chaos completely. They’re the kings and queens of pivots. 

Doria: Yeah, I love it. 

Maya: Those who are suffering from poverty are willing to do what it takes. That’s a very hard thing to do.

Doria: It’s very hard. I would imagine, as you have these experiences, they begin to also inform your work and perspective even more.

Maya: I hope that they don’t make judgments for me [and] become part of the nuance, like information that I can lean into the data so that an experience isn’t foreign. I’m very cautious about being the person who doesn’t have to stay in a space, right? I have all of that information and am trying to lean on it to ask questions. 

Doria: Absolutely.

Being a WOC in the Data Field

Doria: As we wrap up, I wanted to ask you, as a woman of color [and] someone who’s involved with data, how have you been received, generally speaking?

Maya: I think I am a very blessed person to have never met a stranger. I’m usually well-received in spaces. I think I’m pretty affable until I’m not. I’m very sincere, authentic, and flexible.

Doria: Right.

Maya: I mix among classes. That’s very abnormal. Most people stay within their own social class. I can reach the transient person from city to city to somebody in Congress. I think that allows people to trust my observations. 

Also, I’m someone who likes to be accountable for the work. We’re very detailed. If you ask me a question about it, I’ve got notes on notes on notes, so I can go back to the data. We have an order of operations, so we’re accountable and clear.

Doria: Yes.

Maya: In that, people receive us well, me and my team. Sometimes I find that when we’re dealing with cultures that have friction, like if it’s a conversation about ethnicity, and you’re in an Anglo power structure with persons of color who are saying, “You’re not including me,” or “That’s not right,” there’s anxiety. I’m trying to come into a state like, “Hey, these are whole nuances that you didn’t even know existed. You need to trust me that we’re guiding you in the right direction.” This happens about 50 percent of the time when the current dominant power structure can’t let go. That causes friction because I’m like, “What the eff did you hire me for? Don’t waste my time.” We have 50 percent of people who are willing to listen and try and 50 percent who want to maybe dip their toe in the water or tokenism. I’m not friendly about that 50 percent. 

Doria: Yeah, no, I wouldn’t be either. Would you say that, of the clients that you’ve had, they’ve kind of been 50-50 in terms of their dedication to real change?

Maya: Yes, it’s 50-50. We have to remember that people are coming with whole life experiences [and] an education system that fundamentally tells us that many of the assets of Black and Brown communities — because they don’t have money — are that they’re not valuable, even though it’s those assets and those communities that keep America thriving.

Doria: Yes.

Maya: We’re not talking about a mind shift. We’re going for an intent [and] national shift. That’s change management pivoting literally millions of times in a year, billions probably for people who are on their own cycles, timeframes, and own histories. This is generations of work.

10 Years From Now

Doria: To your point, my last question was going to be where do you want to see yourself 10 years from now? Being that it takes so long for the change that you recommend then to be implemented and then to see the results, I’m going to kind of skip that question because I think you’ve answered it, right? Your values are the values of what you reflect from the community.

Maya: Yes.

Doria: That’s how I’ve understood it. It informs the data and recommendations.

Maya: It’s going to be interesting. We know that most innovators or inventors are not the people who bring their products and services to the market. My favorite example is the VCR or the videotape. No one remembers the first VCR company. They’ll tell you it was JVC or Sony, but it wasn’t. It was an obscure group out of the Midwest. They were in the market for five to seven years before any of those groups. FordMomentum! will likely be that type, right? This is a torture test of my own patience. It’s spiritual for me. We make money in the sense that we need it to create the services. If we want to see an America that’s competitive, then we’re going to have to get it right. 

Doria: Yes.

Maya: We’re just one group that’s seeding this very early. In 10 years, I would probably estimate that you will see lots of Mayas. I hope that they will continue to innovate using better tools, using less analog. I’m very analog still. I’m a human’s human. I use digital tools for data aggregation and the baselines that you have to have to meet minimum standards. I’m still very human, which is why I like this. Somebody’s going to come who’s better, smarter, faster, and more adept. I’m just here to ask the what-ifs, start that and practice with persons like yourself. Then, we build from there.

Doria: I think that you’re being very modest about what you have contributed. I think that what you’re doing is pioneering work. I want to thank you for showing up today so authentically.

Maya: Thank you. That’s so kind of you. These are hard times for humans.

Doria: Yeah, exactly. Where can our listeners find out more about you and FordMomentum!?

Maya: I’m a human’s human. I don’t do social media too well for the reasons I stated earlier. Our website is thefordmomentum.com. That’s always updated. I love to have conversations. I’m curious. Our team is curious. We’re always learning. My mom says, “Are you open to being open? Are you being gentle with yourself?” The answer is yes. People can contribute information. We love to read. They can visit thefordmomentum.com and communicate with us that way.

Doria: Excellent. We will have all of that information in the episode when it comes out. I can’t wait to have this come out. I have had such a lovely, meaningful conversation with you today.

Maya: Same, I can’t wait. We’ll have to meet up someplace outside of the tech world.

Doria: I would love it. Okay, now we’re going to say goodbye to the tech world!