How to Write a Career Playbook for Women of Color

Check out Octavia online!

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• Twitter - @OctaviaGoredema

Full Transcript:

Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

Intro:

00:00:01

Doria Lavagnino: Her career started in marketing for Edelman, where she rose to an executive role and half a decade in PR leadership. Nine years ago she founded her agency Twenty Ten, providing career development workshops and group coaching to underrepresented women across the country. She is also the author of Prep, Push, Pivot: Essential Career Strategies for Underrepresented Women, published by Wiley — named one of the most recommended books by Refinery29, Management Today, and Cosmo. Octavia Goredema, welcome to SheVentures!

00:00:44

Octavia Goredema: Thank you so much for the warm welcome! So happy to be here.

Growing Up

00:00:51

Doria: When I was researching your background, I found tons about you and I was wondering if you could tell listeners a little bit about Octavia growing up.

00:01:08

Octavia: Oh, wow! Well, Octavia growing up was endlessly curious about so many things and that’s still the case today. I was such an avid reader. I still devour books but the degree to which I devoured books as a kid was off the charts. I just loved books, loved writing, loved anything creative. I'm just really curious about things. Yes, that was me as a child. I didn’t, I guess, fully appreciate them but so many of those things [became] so prevalent in the work I do now. 

00:01:59 

Doria: Absolutely, I can see that. Was there one person or event that helped define you?

00:02:09 

Octavia: Oh, goodness!

00:02:11

Doria: I promise that’ll be my hardest question!

00:02:12

Octavia: That’s a hard one! Yeah, that’s a really hard question to answer, Doria, because there are continually moments that inspire me — even this week, I was in a coaching session. I was leading [it], but the conversation that I was having invigorated and inspired me. [It] made me think about things a little differently. When I’m looking at [it], it’s hard to say if there was one moment, to be honest — 

00:02:48 

Doria: Or one person.

00:02:49 

Octavia: Yes!

Octavia’s Career Background

00:02:50 

Doria: Okay, fair enough. Now I’m going to ask you this because I’m American and we’re hopelessly fascinated by British people and the royal order. I know that you were appointed a member of the order of the British Empire by the late queen. 

00:03:12 

Octavia: Yes.

00:03:12 

Doria: My partner was born in the U.K., although he’s of Indian origin. I told him I was interviewing you and he said, “No, that’s a really big deal.” He said, “She must have done something really noteworthy.” I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about that. 

00:03:32 

Octavia: Oh, of course. Well, I am now a dual U.S./U.K. citizen. You’re right, I was born and raised in England and moved from England to the United States in 2005. 

I was appointed to the order of the British Empire in the year 2012 by Queen Elizabeth. It was in recognition of the work that I was doing to support Black women in business. I started an organization called Twenty Ten, and it provided support. And when I look back on it now, it really was due to coaching and mentoring for Black women in business. Also, crucially, we did work with schoolchildren. It was very important to me [to] provide access to role models; access to individuals who might be able to not just talk about what they’ve done but answer questions about how they got there or to share perspectives on what their childhood had been like — the pieces that we often don’t see. That work began from curiosity and [a] very organic place of me [of] being curious about the journeys of others and wanting to support others. Then, thinking about how we, as women, — who are perceived to be in a position to provide perspective — could, also, help the next generation. When that work began, I didn’t know how it would culminate. I certainly did not know that I would end up receiving honor from my work, which was the nice icing on the cake — but the cake itself was the women I was able to meet and learn from and connect with. The work that we were able to do was just fantastic. 

00:05:53 

Doria: That’s outstanding. It kind of leads me to my final question about England. As a woman of color, did you feel racism in the U.K.?

00:06:11 

Octavia: Of course. Institutional racism is pervasive and sometimes it’s impossible to ignore when you’re called a racial slur. On the subject of microaggressions, whether that’s at school or university or in the workplace, I think it took me a long time to realize the longer-term implications of that — not just from a societal perspective but just from your progression. It became the norm as I was navigating my career that I might be the only Black woman, not just on a team but in a meeting, sometimes in the building. That became the norm for me. It still is the norm for me in many instances and for so many of us. 

Yes, of course, there have been so many moments that now I’ve had to navigate or things that I’ve experienced or supported others through in terms of their own experiences. I think that’s pervasive wherever you are. 

00:07:33 

Doria: Yes, I would take your word for that. It certainly is also an issue in the United States, as well.

00:07:41 

Octavia: Yes.

00:07:41 

Doria: You attended college in England. and then it seems your career started when you moved to the United States. You moved — that is quite a pivot, right?

00:07:54 

Octavia: Yes, my career started before I moved. I have a degree in politics and history. I secured my first job in London, actually even before my graduation ceremony. I saw an entry-level position in public relations advertised [in the] national newspaper and entry-level positions — at that time weren’t advertised in national newspapers. Those ads cost money and entry-level positions that you come by it’s the lowest scale. 

00:08:20 

Doria: They’re hard to come by. 

00:08:23 

Octavia: I saw an opportunity and I applied for it. I [actually] had my heart set on remaining in the Midlands in England. This was an opportunity in London. I applied and interviewed and was offered the role. I was conflicted for a long time about what I should do. Should I move to London? Thank goodness, I said yes. So I did. I rented a moving truck and moved all of my things, started my job, and then actually took off [after] my graduation. 

I worked in London for five years before I moved to Los Angeles. I’d already started my career and achieved certain milestones. When I moved to Los Angeles, I transferred with my company to a management position. 

00:09:05 

Doria: So you were at Edelman in London and transferred?

00:09:09 

Octavia: Yes, they had acquired a PR agency that I worked at for a while. I was there and it became part of Edelman, and then I moved to Los Angeles. 

00:09:14 

Doria: Understood. What attracted you to move to Los Angeles, to the United States?

00:09:25 

Octavia: Oh, love. I moved here to be with my husband. We were not married at the time. That was the reason and he was the sole reason that I moved professionally. It was an opportunity to do something that I had never done before. I’d never worked overseas. I was excited about that component. Yes, I took a leap of faith to do that, and what I realize now, with the benefit of hindsight, is that it was the best professional decision I could ever have made. It was a very personal decision. 

00:10:03 

Doria: Right, got it. So it was a personal decision but it ended up turning out very well for you, is what you’re saying?

00:10:09 

Octavia: Yes..

00:10:09 

Doria: Okay, and in looking at your career, you have certainly risen through hard work up the proverbial career ladder. What would you say are qualities that you have and how others helped you develop, to propel you forward?

00:10:31 

Octavia: Innately I’m very driven but I’m also incredibly motivated by providing opportunities for others to rise and thrive. I’m interested when I lead teams or projects or programs. I’m really invested in opening doors of opportunity, where possible, to others. I have been told that I’m [a] great communicator. I don’t think about that but of course the thread of all the work that I’ve done from my corporate, and professional career through my work as a coach, my work as an author, and work that I’ve done to host programs. Yes, communication is a common thread that connects a lot of things. 

00:11:28 

Doria: You’re being so modest because I also know that you hosted a show for the Harvard Business Review for one year during the pandemic, which is amazing. How did you find that [opportunity]?

00:11:38 

Octavia: Yes. I didn’t know about that opportunity at all. I was asked by the team at Harvard Business Review if I would consider the opportunity. 

00:12:01 

Doria: Wow.

00:12:02 

Octavia: And just like with my move to Los Angeles, when the opportunity came I said, “Yes.” It was a fantastic experience. It was season 2, which was a weekly show about leadership, which I cohosted with Josh Macht andAdi Ignatius for Harvard Business Publishing. It was such a joy to do and I now host on their TV platform. I never have known what the next step is for me because I’ve often been pleasantly surprised by the opportunities that have come my way.

From Corporate Exec to Author

00:12:37 

Doria: Yes, that’s wonderful. Can you describe your pivot from corporate America — you, also, obviously have a writing interest — to pivoting to start your own agency nine years ago? 

00:12:58 

Octavia: Yes, so it was [a] gradual combination that had some catalyst moments along the way. I’ve always been fascinated by what comes before success and what we, as individuals, navigate as we are building our careers — what it takes to do that. That ultimately culminated in my, training to become a career coach and coaching others. It also had another track where I love talking to people and interviewing people about their journeys, obstacles they’ve overcome, insights that they have, and advice that they have for others. I love to write. I would interview people for the Guardian Newspaper in the U.K. [I’d] interview people for Black Enterprise in the United States. I always wanted to be an author. The biggest pivot I think I made was making that happen. 

So all those things that I was doing coupled with my own fascination about professional development, career development and then discovering what coaching can do and how it can be so transformative. The first thing I had to do in my training [to become a coach] was to start coaching others literally from the beginning. 

00:14:29 

Doria: Wow.

00:14:29 

Octavia: And I’m so glad that it was [it happened] that way versus just theoretical because I had to jump right in and start. Once I did that, I realized there was so much to it that just fulfilled me. 

Then, running at the same time, I received an email out of the blue asking if I could be a champion for [and be featured in] an exhibition called Women Who Dared. [It] was taking place at the University of Oxford to mark the centennial of women achieving the right to vote. They wanted to feature me alongside a number of other women on a special wall in the exhibition. I flew to Oxford for the opening. It was housed in this beautiful historic library, which is centuries old. At that moment, it just cemented to me that I really needed to use my voice. 

That led to the book that I ended up writing but those things coincided. I made the pivot to leave corporate America and devote time to writing my book and continue coaching and to see where that took me. 

00:16:02 

Doria: So, it was not a gradual process you started from. I hear different variations of this pivot. I hear of people who do work and then take on clients, a little bit at a time until they get their business to where they need it to be. Then, others just stop what they’re doing and they know that they have to focus on this next chapter of their professional life. It sounds like it was the latter for you. 

00:16:32 

Octavia: Yes, it ended up being the latter but there was the former, too, in terms of there were just seeds that were planted. I didn’t know how they were going to culminate. Yes, I do remember, probably, that trip to Oxford being a good point where I return to when I want to see what it would be like to just channel my energy into writing a book and to see where that takes me. So, that’s what I did. 

00:16:58 

Doria: You mentioned that the pivot to being an author was probably an, even more, significant one. Do you want to share why that was?

00:17:06 

Octavia: Yes, because I always dreamed of doing this as a child. I gave up on that dream very early. The book that I wrote, which is a career coaching guide for underrepresented women in the workplace, is called Prep, Push, Pivot, and it was published by Wiley in 2022. I could not have written that book without having given up on dreams early on in my career — without having built a career that started in London and then moving to the United States, without having become a manager and a director, without having led teams and hired people and all of the things I did professionally — all of that. Then, plus [everything I did] as a coach and how I’ve supported others — all of those things contributed to the body of work and the perspectives and insights that I ultimately had to share. The result, I now realize, [is] it’s never too late. It’s never too late. 

00:18:10 

Doria: I love that.

00:18:10 

Octavia: When I embarked on this journey to become an author, I didn’t know that I would end up at the point that I’m at now. I didn’t know that I would end up with a book that’s available in bookstores. I did not know, but I wanted to see what would happen if I didn’t give up. 

00:18:28 

Doria: Oh, and clearly you are very tenacious, which I admire greatly. It’s so true that oftentimes society gives us feedback that makes us kind of shrink a little bit from what we want to go after. For whatever reason, you’ve been able to keep going and that is not always [the case]. 

00:18:55 

Octavia: No, of course not.

00:18:56 

Doria: Tell me a time when you couldn’t [keep going].

Octavia on Hearing “No”

00:18:58 

Octavia: Oh, goodness, there’s so many times. There are times when there are jobs that you’ve wanted and you know you would have excelled at and didn’t get the opportunity. There [are] times when things don’t work out or you stop yourself or gatekeepers or circumstances stop you. There are times when people will tell you, “I don’t know if you can do that,” “I don’t know if that’s going to be possible for you,” or “I don’t know how you [can] make that work.” There are so many times when you will hear, “No.” 

I just had the opportunity. I’m late to the game. I watched Hamilton for the first time with my daughters this month. I was just so consumed with everything that Lin-Manuel Miranda did to bring that to life. He was told [when] working on that project, “I don’t think that’s going to work so well.” Even when you look at people who are at the pinnacle of what they do, like Lin-Manuel or even [people] in your sphere in terms of whatever your next step is there’s going to be times where something might just seem like it’s out of reach or even when you believe in it, it doesn’t seem like things are aligning. 

Yes, my career hasn’t had as many dips as there have been in his, and that’s the thing. That’s why I love coaching because people only see the end result. [They] see your LinkedIn profile or they see your job title or they see a bio or they read something maybe that you’ve shared or whatever it is that you do, something that you’ve created, or something you’ve led — but they don’t know what that has taken and perhaps how many no’s there have been or how many setbacks there have been. Nobody else often knows that.

00:20:57 

Doria: I love that you’re saying that. It mirrors what I’ve heard often, which is when women have achieved a certain amount, if you want to emulate their success in your own way look at what they were doing 10, 15 years ago because that is also really informative or who they became. It wasn’t like it just happened. 

00:21:28 

Octavia: And also success is how you define that. It becomes how every individual defines that. Trust me, I have supported, as a coach, so many people that are incredibly successful when you look at their accomplishments, but they are navigating so many things that they actually don’t even necessarily perceive [themselves] as a success yet. There are the things that they still haven’t done or the things aren’t fully aligning the way that they want them to be. So, yes, it’s a journey.

Advice for Solopreneurs and Small Businesses

00:22:07 

Doria: It’s definitely a journey. Back to your company, I know that you’ve worked with some very big organizations: Google, American Airlines, Tinder, General Motors, Nike, and Dow Jones. I was wondering, as a small business owner myself, what kind of offerings would you have for solopreneurs or smaller businesses?

00:22:30 

Octavia: So, I predominantly work with organizations who are looking for a coach to support their employees or to deliver group coaching or professional development support. From time to time, [I do] work with individual clients. That happens when someone has read my book or connected with something that I have written or perhaps listened to an interview and then reached out with a very direct ask. If it aligns with something that I think I might be able to support, then I think it’s very important to hold some time for those opportunities. Not everyone works at a company or organization that can provide access to coaching for professional development. 

Then, more broadly, you mentioned other solopreneurs. I am endlessly curious about what other people do and their work. I just love connecting. I’m a fellow of [an] organization called the Royal Society of Arts, Manufactures, and Commerce, which is essentially a think tank of global social innovators. It started in London more than 260 years ago, but now represents 30,000 fellows around the world who do an array of different things. I lead the gender equity network for the United States. I served on the meeting committee for their entering program. I’m endlessly curious about what other people do and how I can make introductions. So, by default, whether I’m coaching someone or not, in terms of if I can help [them] or open a door it’s often just connecting [to] people. I love to do that.

Race, Corporate America, and Representation

00:24:24 

Doria: So, you’re [a] very apt networker I was wondering, because of an interview I had yesterday — it was about the topic of race and corporations. It was a short film that I watched [that] brought to the forefront this idea of a lot of corporations putting up Black Lives Matter on Instagram, for example, or doing corporate initiatives, throwing money at something but not really getting behind like the root of the cause or making sure that metrics are being looked at — that change is actually happening. 

My question [is], in your experience, what percentage of companies would you say are very metric-focused and trying to work on this issue of race and women of color, in particular? What percentage are kind of like calling it in?

00:25:48 

Octavia: Yeah, I haven’t done any studies that could give a percentage but I do firmly believe that there’s still so much work to be done. That’s because the issues that companies are endeavoring, even with the best intentions to address, are not easy fixes. There has to be an investment that is made but a substantive amount of paid — not just in terms of endeavoring to their diverse talent but to retain that talent; to support that talent and to advance that talent because women of color [are] the most underrepresented group in the corporate pipeline. 

[A] big reason why I wrote my book is because, when you look at the stats in terms of what we earn — the pay gap — impacts us when you have the intersectionality of gender. Race is just abhorrent. We lose on average $1 million during the course of our life because of the pay gap and how that culminates throughout your career. When you also look at leadership levels, when you look at C-suites, when you look at vice presidents — at the representation or the lack of representation — you have people who get to a certain point and they’re leaving corporate America. These things hurt my heart. It’s going to take more than a year, two years, three years, four years, it has to be a long-term, double-downed invested commitment to change [the] trajectory that we are currently on. 

The way things were before the pandemic was going to take over a century to close the pay gap, Doria. There are so many things that have — in the past few years — been [happening],  so many steps made in terms of teams that are being built for diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, and culture. I think we have to look and see five, 10 years from now what progress has been made. I don’t think it’s too early to even begin to see what impact the pandemic [has had]. Oh my goodness, it’s been so hard for all of us, but I hope we have not gone backward. I hope we can continue to push forward.

00:28:24

Doria: I think with awareness, I mean I think it starts there. Obviously, action has to then follow but I think that awareness — with things like your book — is one way in which that can happen. 

Advice for Women of Color

Doria: What would you say are the three key issues — I was going to ask generally but really that — women of color face in the workplace?

00:28:52

Octavia: Yes, we need sponsors to advance. More often than not, because we are the more underrepresented group in the corporate pipeline, for us to be able to move forward, we need senior leaders to invest in us. Not just hiring us, that’s one part. Then, to invest in us.

There’s a step that I share in my book about the disparity between access to senior leadership of women of color compared to white males in terms of visibility and being in the room with you. It’s not just having the connections. 

00:29:42 

Doria: I wanted to ask you. Would you agree it’s not a pipeline problem, [that] it’s a visibility problem?

00:29:48 

Octavia: Oh no, yeah. It’s visibility but they’re also having sponsors who are invested in your career development for you to move up. You have to have an individual who can guide you in terms of not just getting your job done. What it takes to be visible but in terms of recommending you for opportunities for giving you stretch assignments or being a sounding board. I’ve had people like that in my career. I still have people like that who [are] open to me. When you no longer have that individual or relationship, it’s very hard for us to do those things by ourselves. 

00:30:38 

Doria: Of course.

00:30:43 

Octavia: We need sponsors — that’s what we need. I see that time and time again for people that I know who have been able to get promoted, to work up the ranks, to become very senior leaders — there was another more senior individual who helped make that happen. Now, of course, your own ability is paramount in your drive and your ambition, and your goals. It’s very hard for us to do those things on our own and still get the opportunity to continue to advance. 

00:31:19 

Doria: Absolutely, and everyone has to have a mentor to be shown the way. It also helps with confidence, I think, as well.

00:31:34 

Octavia: It does but a sponsor is the next level. A sponsor will tell you, “This is what I did to get promoted.” [A sponsor will say] “Doria, this is what I’m going to do to help you get promoted.”

00:31:46 

Doria: Got it, and that is the active role that women or men that are allies should be playing. 

00:31:51 

Octavia: Yes, absolutely. 

00:31:57 

Doria: That’s so helpful, actually, to hear the concreteness of how to do it because it sounds simple. I think people don’t know what to do and it’s so important that people find out what they can do.

00:32:18 

Octavia: Yes, be there to be a sounding board, share what you have earned at different stages in your career, just be there. A game changer can [sometimes be that] you can be working in a culture that is very transparent about salaries and compensations. With new legislation that is coming into play in different parts of the United States, some of the salary brackets that are being shared as a result are huge. It’s really helpful to hear from others in terms of what they have earned at different stages in their career or what their perceptions could be for what you should be earning — because that can make such a difference. 

00:33:02 

Doria: Absolutely, I think women tend to undervalue themselves — almost always.

00:33:10 

Octavia: Also, when we don’t undervalue ourselves, and even when we do ask, we don’t always get what we ask for. That’s another thing that I address in my book — how to bounce back when you hear — 

00:33:26 

Doria: Is it negotiating?

00:33:26 

Octavia: No, but, negotiating is important. It’s a skill that we have to have but not all negotiations are successful. Doria, but that doesn’t mean that you stop. It just means arming yourself with information until you find opportunities that align. Knowing your worth is so important, especially when your worth is not being reflected back at you. 

00:33:51 

Doria: Yes, I completely agree with you. In your book, you talk a lot about specific ways in which women and women of color can help themselves. 

Can you highlight three areas that women of color typically come to you for coaching?

00:34:42 

Octavia: Yes, so my book is called Prep, Push, Pivot. I wrote it as a career guide that underrepresented women could use at any point in their careers, regardless of level. Whether you’re in a role and looking to get promoted or you’re in between roles and looking for that next opportunity or maybe you’re considering taking a career break or coming back from a career break [and need] help you plan your next step, know[ing] your words, reach for what you want in your career, ask for what you want, and overcome obstacles along the way. I see a lot of scenarios but the common threads that I see in terms of my coaching people who want to be

promoted, who are ticking all the boxes, but haven’t been and what can they do next, how do they navigate that? I often work with people who are having challenges with coworkers in terms of how they navigate that, especially if that coworker is someone that they report to, in terms of how they can fix a relationship, demonstrate their worth, and navigate that. Also, I coach people who have been promoted and have landed that incredible role in their organization or with a new organizer but then aren’t being respected. 

00:36:03 

Doria: Oh, God. Right, so your book will help them along those common threads?

00:36:20 

Octavia: It definitely helps in terms of answering questions that I hear as a coach. That I’ve supported others and given action-oriented recommendations. I have to also say it takes multiple levels of support in terms of managing our career. Everyone should have access, if possible, to a career coach. Everyone, if possible, should have not just one mentor but several. Everyone needs a sponsor within their organization, and I think, Doria, we don’t always have access to those things even with the best intentions.

I wanted to write a book for someone who perhaps doesn’t have access to a career coach, who might not have the budget for a career coach. Often if you don’t have access to it and you’re looking for it yourself, coaching is quite expensive. It’s not always easy so I wanted [to] create something that you could use if you didn’t have access to that. Yes, where possible perhaps — with peers maybe — look at where you went to, scour alumni that you might be able to be introduced to, other people in the end story that may be a step ahead from you that you could have a conversation with, even if it’s not a formalized mentoring relationship. Try to find sounding boards and people that you can connect with. We also face very unique challenges. As a coach, when I’m working one on one, I’m able to work with someone for six months or 12 months and build and grow and troubleshoot. Everyone has access to that [in] my book. [It] is a starting point in terms of questions and answers and strategies and advice — but, yes, lead with your network as much as you possibly can.

00:38:14 

Doria: That is a really wonderful note to end this conversation on. You have been so incredibly insightful. Can you tell our listeners where they can find more about you, the work that you're doing, and your book?

00:38:34 

Octavia: Absolutely, so you [can] go to octaviagoradema.com, my website, and you can click on a link at the top of the page and read the first chapter of my book right now. If you would like to, it’s also available to buy wherever you love to buy books — including independent and Black-owned bookstores, as well.

00:38:55 

Doria: Excellent.

00:38:57 

Octavia: Yes, if you use LinkedIn and listen to this episode, please do reach out and connect with me. I’m always happy to connect and would love to connect with you.

00:39:08 

Doria: Thank you so much for being on SheVentures, Octavia!

00:39:13 

Octavia: Thank you so much, Doria! It was so wonderful to talk to you.