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Full Transcript:

Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

Intro: 

Doria Lavagnino: This woman is an ex-banker turned entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Mocktail Club, which creates non-alcoholic cocktails based on flavors she encountered on her global travels. She is also a socially conscious entrepreneur, donating 1 percent of her sales to support clean water access globally. Here to talk about the inspiration behind her business idea and how she made it happen is Pauline Idogho. Pauline, welcome to SheVentures!

Pauline Idogho: Thank you very much, pleasure to be here.

Doria: It is great to have you!

An International Upbringing

Doria: One of the things that I noticed when I was researching you, is your international upbringing, living on three continents. I wondered if you could start there by talking a little bit about how you grew up and how that affected your worldview.

Pauline: I was born in Nigeria. I lived there until I was 10. Then, moved to London and I went to high school there. I loved my whole experience. [My mother] moved back to Nigeria, which was interesting; I moved back for about a year.

Doria: How was that?

Pauline: It was different. I spent quite a bit of my teenage life in London. I had to get acclimatized to somewhere that I was actually born, but the roots weren’t there. I spent quite a lot of time in London. 

With my kids, we try to go back to Nigeria. It’s important to understand where you’re from.

Doria: Absolutely.

Pauline: It’s important to understand your route. I always cherish the moment of going back. What was very interesting is, I wanted to come to the U.S. for college, but my mother wanted me to go to Paris. At the time, I thought it was very strange because I was like, “I want to be a freshman, start school and start this whole crazy journey for the next step.”

Doria: Why Paris? I’m curious.

Pauline: Well, I was studying French. My mom wanted me to just have this world perspective in life and spend a year exploring and learning more about world cultures. 

 I spent the year with a French family and really immersed myself in Parisian life. I made friends with only French-speaking people.

I think all of those experiences, especially Paris for just a year, helped shape me. I felt like when I came to the U.S. for college, it was a little more grounded. In the world of Paris and everything else, French manners are focused on what I wanted to do. I feel like a lot of my career moves and goals ended up being very international, probably because of those changes and my life in [the] different places that I lived. 

Doria: Your mother played a very strong role in your life. Was your father a part of your life?

Pauline: He passed. So he was part of it, but he passed away.

Doria: Okay, understood. You spent the bulk of your time in the U.S. The first part of your career in D.C., you went to Wharton School of Business in Philadelphia. You earned your MBA in finance. I live with someone who earned an MBA in finance and all I gotta say is I’m impressed, because it’s not easy. You worked in international finance and banking before becoming an entrepreneur. What did you do, in a nutshell? You probably did a number of things but in summary?

Idogho’s Banking Career

Pauline: In summary, I was able to get money for projects.

Doria: I love how you break it down. That’s pretty simple.

Pauline: Exactly, and there were different types of projects in different phases of my life. I started off in power in investment banking. Those were more for utility companies that turn on the lights for us — making sure that they had money to continue, whether it was by our debt or equity. 

Then, I sort of wanted mission-driven companies. I wanted to work for something that made a difference but was still in the private sector. I worked for the private arm of the World Bank at the International Finance Corporation. 

Then, in a nutshell, what I did was [get] money for companies in developing countries. I worked in India, China, Turkey, and Ethiopia with private secondary schools. It could be a cement company, a wood furniture panel company in South Africa that imports [or] exports a lot of their products. [I] was just doing a lot of the work on why that company and ensuring that they were viable enough to sort of grow in the economy, create jobs, and have all these great effects. Whether it was on the environment or just building the economy as a whole, making sure that it was private sector dollars to really build and help the economy in a different way. I was excited about that. 

Then, I went to business school. Again, looking for things that made a difference when I graduated. I ended up working for a clean energy company. It was interesting. That was in 2010. I like to think I’m before the trend. At the time, I hadn’t even graduated from business school, and this weird solar company was global. It looked like such a horrible crazy niche. Like, Why would you pigeonhole yourself to something that maybe you won’t get a job? Who knows where a seller was going to go at a time, right? I jumped in and it was exciting. 

Doria: It was a good intuition.

Pauline: It was a good call. I want to believe that my intuitions continuously lead me to good calls and interesting things before the trends start. I’m up there when the curve happens. It’s so exciting.

Doria: Yes, fantastic. What would you say — before we pivot to entrepreneurship — are three things that you learned working for others that helped you in entrepreneurship?

Pauline: I remember that in investment banking, I would have these associates when I was an analyst. They would say, “Oh, it’s not there. I couldn’t find the information.” You’re like, “No, that’s not enough. You got to figure it out.” That’s entrepreneurship in a nutshell. The answers aren’t there. You gotta figure it out and find a way. The ability to work with different people and do personal skills. That’s important. In the projects that I worked on, you’re dealing with bankers, engineers, and multi-faceted groups. The ability to kind of motivate and get everyone to the same goal, that’s essential in leadership. That’s what you need as an entrepreneur.

Doria: Yes, and you found that different? I would imagine different people have different communication styles, ways of learning, and ways of reacting.

Pauline: Yes. Then, I would just say attention to detail and all the other fun things that you learn at your job. When you are an entrepreneur, having that sort of quantitative ability to dissect information is key, and the more you can do it, the better.

Doria: I think many people think of entrepreneurship as like an impulsivity thing. You just kind of go after it. It’s so much not that, typically. People that I’ve known to be successful or are growing companies are people who tend to be very data-driven and follow certain procedural steps. They may not always get it right, but they have some steps that they’re following. 

Pauline: Exactly.

Pivoting to Entrepreneurship

Doria: Talk about your pivot to entrepreneurship. How did that happen?

Pauline: Yes, it was very interesting. Going back to my dad, because I didn’t know a lot about him — he was always into business. At 21, he launched a number of very successful companies. He indirectly inspired me to want to be a businesswoman at 10. The path that I was on, I didn’t think I would pivot into entrepreneurship because I was always behind the scenes — more so looking at investing in companies’ projects versus actually building them. It was accidental, but at the same time, there was a sort of DNA that maybe I was supposed to be here. 

I was eight months pregnant where the story starts. I was sitting at a nice, swanky restaurant bar. It was a closing dinner for this billion-dollar deal that we just closed. I was excited and celebrating with everyone — buying everybody food and wine for the celebration. Then, I realized there was nothing for me to drink. I was really disappointed. I wanted to be indulged. I wanted to be part of this set. I was an adult and wanted something for an adult palette. I’m someone who enjoys wine. I was disappointed and sort of made this comment, “Why isn’t there anything for me?” There was this venture capitalist — again, it’s one of these serendipitous moments — sitting next to me. He was a friend of a friend and he said, “You should do it.” I was like, “Yeah, I should.” Then, well, at the time I wasn’t even thinking that. That’s where the seed came from and it evolved. There was a bit of something I needed at this specific time. 

Then, I realized that there’s a broader market for this broader need. It’s moderation. People drink, but they’re cutting down for lifestyle purposes, health, and wellness — 80 percent of the people who buy non-alcoholic drinks still drink full-strength alcohol. 

Doria: Oh, that’s interesting.

Pauline: Yeah, so there was this huge white space of adults looking for sophisticated non-alcoholic options for an adult palette. That’s exactly where Mocktail Club comes in. What I found by doing little taste tests was when I tried to replicate Sangria with a virgin version, people were not as excited. The way I actually created the drinks was by evoking a memory and place and then working backward. 

Doria: That’s cool.

Pauline: People got excited. My Manhattan Berry was based on what Carrie Bradshaw drinks. I thought of a martini glass and New York and just evolved that into a drink. That’s the Manhattan Berry. [That’s how] I created all these drinks.

I started at farmers' markets, just to see if there was a real market. People were buying it. The chef from a really great restaurant also wanted it. That’s how I knew I had something worthwhile. My next test was, can I get into Whole Foods? At the time, it [was for] products for people who want that sort of travel-inspired drinks — consumers who care about health and wellness. Once I got in there, it was time to grow and do this full time. 

Doria: Incredible. From the time that you did farmers' markets [and] to the time that you got to Whole Foods, how long was that test period?

Pauline: It was over a year plus. It was fine-tuning really, seeing if there was a market and figuring out how to create something that is so crafted. I had to work with scientists to essentially recreate this. There are a lot of parameters that I wanted. One was [that it] had to be natural and I wanted organic ingredients. I wanted nothing that you couldn’t pronounce. Clean labels. Anything long and weird doesn’t go into the product.

Doria: Yeah, it shouldn’t be in your body.

Pauline: Exactly. I also wanted no colorings or preservatives. Everything is just pure. It’s a process called tunnel pasteurization, which still gives it a shelf life but with no additives or anything. Really understanding how to create [that] took a while. [That] was a lot of work. 

Doria: I bet. Also, I would imagine just the supply chain. I guess everyone feels like they’re an expert on supply chain now after Covid, but just figuring out how to package it, how to design it, how to make it resonate. Did you do a B testing, in that regard, as well?

Pauline: There’s a limit to how much you can do when you start and you bootstrap. Even now, I love to do just pure B testing to some level. I picked some great designers. I love their aesthetics. I wanted to be different. I think, for me, it was key to work with people who look at the world differently. [Someone] that would come to the creative table with a different aesthetic.

I work with a designer called Design Army. I wanted it to appeal to the modern new drinker, hues, color, and this sort of modern [feeling]. You don’t want to actually throw the bottle in the trash. You almost want to keep it. Put flowers in there. That was part of the brand, my aesthetics, and my stamp. I think that’s where entrepreneurship comes in — where your vision is driven. 

Doria: Definitely, part of it was that vision. You mentioned the natural nature and I know everything in your drinks — there are four total, right?

Pauline: There are.

Doria: Do you want to list them out?

Pauline: Sure, so the Manhattan Berry is one of them. It’s got blackberry and pear shrub — apple cider vinegar is one of the ingredients, which is great. It gives you the complexity and the bite, but it’s also good for you. It has prebiotics, tea, and ginger. 

Doria: Sounds spicy.

Pauline: It’s got a little ginger kick. If you’re a ginger lover, it’s amazing. Then, Havana Twist. Think summer, tropical beach. [There’s] cucumber, mint, lime, cardamom, and cloves in it. The Capri Spritz is Mediterranean driven. Think beach as well as fun and a little bitter. It has pomegranate, cranberry shrub, lemongrass, and a little apple cider vinegar to give it that bitterness. Last but not least is Bombay Fire, which has pomegranate, tea, and chili peppers, but it’s really this black and smokey warm spice. They’re all exciting. 

Doria: Yes, my mouth is watering, and it’s only nine o’clock in the morning. You said you were bootstrapped, correct?

Pauline: Yes.

Doria: Okay, now you’re a few years in. What are three things that you think you’ve done particularly well and three things that you would do differently?

Reflecting on Perfection and Mistakes

Pauline: Great question. Three things that I’ve done well… one [is] formulation. It’s an interesting hybrid of functionality and taste, for sure — and it’s originality. The inspirations are very different from what’s out there. It’s not mimicking what exists. We’re creating something totally different, totally modern, and with an amazing team that I’m fortunate to have at this stage, in this journey, which is still pretty early. 

There’s some level of leadership where you’re able to get people with backgrounds from Coke or Meta or Mondeléz International to help with that [driving] brand and a lot of things. There is a structure [and] old ways things were done. It’s great to have a team that has that structure but can still play in the startup world, as well, which is very different. 

Doria: That is so hard to find. Seasoned professionals say “Oh, I want to be in a startup,” but then many of them when they find out what it’s really like, then they’re like, “No, I don’t know if this is for me.”

Pauline: Yeah, nobody does anything for you. You do it. You want data. You get it.

Doria: Exactly, no assistance.

Pauline: You are the assistant. And you are the CEO all at the same time, right?

Doria: Exactly.

Pauline: I’m fortunate to have that. I think it’s great. I hope to create a great brand that’s inclusive [and] mission-driven. That hybrid is where our sweet spot [is] where you can feel like you’re getting this nice product, but you’re happy to have it and you don’t feel like it’s a club you don’t belong in. That’s important. That’s part of our ethos. It’s part of our brand. I’m excited about [that] too. 

Doria: Yes, and then the three things that you would do differently?

Pauline: All those fun things. Yeah, in a perfect world. Of course, [it’s] great to have millions of dollars. [If] you start off that way, you can build quicker and faster, but it’s not the reality. It would be nice to sit there with a pile of money and do things quicker and faster than learning on the fly, but [it’s] very hard.

Doria: Surely with your background you would be able to, I would think, get in the rooms, and you’re able to talk the language of finance. Have you ever considered venture capital or not?

Pauline: Definitely there now. I guess to your question, should I have started earlier? Possibly, versus growing in a more systematic longer way, right? That’s one thing. Then I think, broadly speaking, it sounds a lot easier than it is because 1.9 percent of women get venture capital dollars. As simple and attractive as our brand is, and everything else, it’s still a hurdle. But, yes, should I? Would I have raised earlier? I think everything is a journey. Everything is a personal journey.

Doria: Yeah, and you have your systems much more stable, in place, and ready to scale now than you would have.

Pauline: Exactly. I think a lot of the learnings are important and you have to sometimes go through it.

Doria: Yes, absolutely.

Pauline: [It] makes you a better entrepreneur. You understand more of the sales and all the different faces of the business versus not understanding your product market. What’s also interesting about the sector is [that] it’s been evolving. A few years ago, it wasn’t as attractive. It wasn’t as sexy. Now, it’s a hot market. Now is probably when VCs are very interested in this sector versus a few years ago when it wasn’t growing as strongly.

A Woman of Color in Finance

Doria: It’s a good time to position it. Excellent. What has been your experience as a woman of color in finance? I think you’ve kind of answered my second question which is in entrepreneurship, which are two very male-dominated industries.

Pauline: Yes, I mean in finance I was, for sure, the only — in multiple places — the only woman, the only Black woman, the only woman from another country on a team in power. At some point, there was a time when the startup was in seven countries. I was probably the only Black person, not even male or female. I’ve come from that lens. 

I guess [the] fire in my belly is changing the status quo [and] changing perceptions. I think it’s very powerful [that] people talk about biases. I think part of it is for people to meet that person they didn’t expect to meet. That helps with the unconscious bias. I don’t know what people expect when they meet me, but it’s like, “Oh, you’re actually really smart. You know what you’re talking about.” I know that should be a given, but it’s not. 

The more people get exposed to others that are like them that are as smart or as traveled as they are, but they just happen to be Black. It does more for [the] unconscious bias than anything else. Now, at least, they know this person that they can point to — whether it’s their friend or whatever it is — that fits a different mold, a different perspective than they thought. That’s actually helpful because then hopefully the next time they interview somebody, they don’t come with that same bias. They can be like, “This could be that other person that works here that’s super smart or driven.”

Doria: Absolutely.

Pauline: That helps open the doors because now they’re more open to actually listening to the next interview instead of jumping to conclusions of “I don’t even think pre-speaking to the person that this is going to work out.”

Doria: You are reminding me a lot of a sister duo that I have now interviewed twice. They are women of color. Their origins are from Ghana. Their family moved from Ghana to Kansas. They are not into tech, either of them. Nonetheless, the first year I interviewed them, they had gone through the Techstars accelerator. It’s an intensive program. They were able to raise a little more than $1 million. It was an over-subscribed amount. It’s for their product called Work Torch. It’s for service industry people to be able to use it for free. 

What was very noticeable to me the second year that I interviewed them, is they raised more. I thought it would be easier because they’re a known quantity. They said it was harder. That could have also been because of the environment. They feel even more pressure to do well because they know that almost 2 percent [statistic] and for women of color, it’s even lower. It’s like 0.4 percent raised venture capital. It’s insane. They feel the same incredible pressure to have to do everything twice as well, if not three times. Do you ever feel that?

Pauline: I feel the pressure, but I also don’t. I’m fine rising to it if that makes sense. You’ve got one life to live. This is a stamp. This is how you re-create — you redefine what is and you leave the world better.

Doria: Yeah, absolutely.

Women of Color in Entrepreneurship

Doria: What are three tips that you would give a woman of color, specifically, who is starting her entrepreneurial journey today?

Pauline: Be resilient. In order to do that, have a community that supports you. I feel like I want to do this. I want to make it easier for others. I won this competition [founded] by Pharrell Williams. 

Doria: I saw that.

Pauline: One thing he said was to share the code. He helps to fund through Black Ambition, Black and brown entrepreneurs. His key thing was to share the code so it’s easier for the next person. That was his biggest advice for us. You need that community in order to do that because it’s hard and that pressure is hard. You will have a zillion obstacles, but understand that your community is supportive of you and your vision, so you can keep going. Surround yourself with smart people as quickly as you can. 

Thirdly, I guess, is to lean into yourself. Part of your originality will be you. That will be your superpower. That could be your diversity. Don’t be afraid to do that, because that actually will give you confidence that your idea is yours. It makes you the right entrepreneur. It’s more from you than anything else.

Pauline’s Superpower

Doria: What is your superpower?

Pauline: I used to say, but I think it still is, an ability to understand people. Hopefully, that makes you a good leader. 

Doria: It’s a great one to have.

Her Mission for Clean Water

Doria: Similarly when you talk about empathy, I did want to touch on what Mocktail Club is doing in terms of helping communities with access to clean water. Why is that, in particular, important to you?

Pauline: It’s part of my mission-driven way of looking at the world. I did banking for a while when I was younger [and] made a lot of money. I wanted to feel good beyond money and monetarily about what I was doing. When I moved to working for the World Bank, it felt great. I was traveling around and doing great things. I was helping these countries grow their economy. That was fascinating. When I moved to clean energy, similarly, I was helping the world become more sustainable. Then, when I wanted to create a company, it was the same thing. If I was going to build a company, it should be the company that I’m excited every single day to be part of. The more money I make, the better I give, right? I wanted to find a mission to support. I spent a lot of years in power. Water is infrastructure. Water is necessary to survive. 

Doria: It’s so often overlooked in America.

Pauline: It’s overlooked. But what’s also funny is [that] there [are] certain places in America that struggle with access to clean water. I’m from Nigeria and I’ve worked in developing countries. I wanted something that was also focused on that. Water, for people, is doing things in Canada, and in some places in North America, where communities are at a disadvantage and don’t have access to clean water. Water to me was liquid. Liquid water was infrastructure. Everybody needs water and clean water without diseases. 

Not only that, a lot of women spend hours traveling around, with buckets on their heads, looking for water instead of studying or having jobs. By creating communities with clean water access, you’re also helping women and children as well as alleviating disease and all sorts of great things. One in 10 people do not have access to clean water in the world. I don’t think we appreciate that when we have bubble baths. 

Doria: Definitely not.

Pauline: People are lucky to have that. Or even brushing your teeth without sterilizing and boiling water.

Doria: Absolutely. Your point about women and children is one that I’ve never considered. Thank you for bringing that up. 

Mocktail Club’s Potential

Doria: Your products are in Whole Foods. They’re online by subscription and corporate orders, as well. What segment do you see growing the most in the next three to five years?

Pauline: Retail the most. We’ve also been growing into more retailers. We just launched at Wegmans, as well, recently. People are drinking less. The momentum is moderation. We see it being available at your retailer's and your alcohol stores. You’re having a party [and] you want to be more inclusive to all your guests. You’re making sure that you have all the libations for everyone. 

Doria: I love that.

Pauline: That’s where we see the world. Definitely retail. We believe in this platform. The way Covid happened — that was when it was fun to be nimble. Trends changed. People were at home ordering more. We did receive a lot of corporate orders because people wanted to still have happy hours virtually by Zoom. They would ship it to all the employees, get on Zoom, and have this wonderful celebration together. 

The world continues to change. We have an omnichannel platform where we’re happy to change with the world and the patterns. We’re not going to be caught flatfooted if something else happens. Again, the world changes continuously and we’re evolving with it. 

Doria: Exactly. I love that diversity of distribution because I think a lot of people overlook that. They’re like, “Online is the most inexpensive way.” Something could happen, to your point, where it may not make sense for whatever reason.

Pauline: And actually we’ve seen quite a bit of that this year. The restaurants have been doing a lot more. Maybe we’ve spent time for the last two years at home, and they actually want to go out and they’re buying retail. They’re buying, going to stores, putting stuff in their cart, and they want things. That’s why the omnichannel platform works because sometimes people don’t want to go online, put their credit card in, and go through the checkout process. If they can hop on their Friday evening or Saturday morning shopping routine and pick it up — we’ve sort of seen, especially with Covid, a move a little bit more toward retail. People want to take their children or friends to restaurants [and] actually be social again. It’s nice to have different channels. 

Doria: It sounds like you’re ready for whatever comes. You’re there. Where can our listeners learn more about you and Mocktail Club?

Pauline: Follow us, definitely, on Instagram. That’s a great way. Social media is a great way to keep abreast of new things.

Doria: What’s your handle?

Pauline: @mocktailclub.

Doria: And your web?

Pauline: Learn more about us as a group [and] a team. Watch us evolve and what our story is. Our website has information. It’s always fun to see the static information, get to be with us, and see our journey as we continue.

Doria: Would you say that Instagram is the main channel that you focus on?

Pauline: It is. We’re starting to do more in TikTok. Yeah, Instagram was probably [the] legacy and TikTok is the future, too.

Doria: Thank you so much, Pauline, for coming on today.

Pauline: Thank you. It was great. Thanks for the wonderful, insightful questions.