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Note: This is an original transcript–edited for sense, length, and clarity.  If you have any questions or concerns, please email our host, Doria Lavagnino, at doria@sheventurespodcast.com.

Intro:

Doria Lavagnino: How do you go from a successful 20-year career in television to a pivot to podcasting, motherhood, and community building? Today’s guest appeared on numerous networks, shows, and events — NBC, Extra, HGTV, Lifetime, and VH1, to name a few. You’ve also likely seen her covering awards like the Oscars, Emmys, Golden Globes, and MTV Music Awards, and the list goes on. As if that isn’t enough, she has also worked with brands as diverse as Colgate to Cadillac. Due to her authentic voice, she has been a guest on more than 100 shows, ones that we all know well, Good Morning America, the Today show, The View, and many more! Then something happened in 2021, she decided to pivot, as we mentioned, to podcasting after the birth of her daughter. Her show is called Mamaste. It is about the journey of motherhood with the goal of both entertaining and creating community. Tanika Ray, welcome to SheVentures!

Tanika Ray: Thank you so much. I love the name of your podcast! Thanks for having me.

Doria: I love the name of yours! I didn’t want to say Tanika Ray at the beginning because then I’d give it all away, right? I like how it rhymes, Mamaste with Tanika Ray.

Tanika: I do too. I love a little poetry, like Shel Silverstein. The whole idea of trying to bring some sort of Zen to mommyhood is the goal.

Doria: Exactly, which is not an easy thing to do.

Tanika: No, ma’am!
Doria: We will definitely get into that.

Entertainment Career

Doria: I wanted to start with your long career covering entertainment. I wanted to ask you: When you’re asked, what was one thing that you absolutely loved and hated about what you did, what comes to mind?

Tanika: I mean, it’s super easy. I have a passion for connecting. I learned that at a very young age, I need to connect with people through words, dance, [and] touch. I’m very passionate about it. What I learned working at all the shows that I’ve been on is I really started to be grateful for connection — even if the connection was 15 minutes, it’s valuable.

Doria: Yes!

Tanika: I felt that in my spirit the first time I interviewed Oprah. I’m new on a job and they’re like, “You’re going to go interview the queen of media. You got to suck it up, do what you got to do.” I remember thinking, “Oh my gosh!” I had three minutes with her and it was the best three minutes of my life. It really doesn’t matter what that connection is. I live by that saying, relationships are literally ships that take you from one place to another. Those trips could be 30 seconds or they can be 30 years. It’s all relative.

Doria: Yeah, absolutely. You didn’t tell me what you hated.

Tanika: Oh, easy. I hated all the bullshit. I’ll give you an example. It had nothing to do with me on red carpets or junkets. People don’t know what junkets are, but whenever you see actors talking about their movie, that’s happening in a junket. Those happen on the weekend. I was working nonstop from six till eight every single day and then doing junkets on the weekend. 

What I realized was the worst part, outside of not having any time, was how easy it was to descend into alcoholism, foodism, and all the things we need to try to function. It’s not normal to go 5 to 8 with no time for yourself. It’s not okay. When they pay you well, they think they own you. They don’t care about your well-being.

Doria: Absolutely, I’ve referred to it as a velvet coffin.

Tanika: There you go!

Doria: You’re right, you’re not really growing anymore. You’re not learning. You’re destroying your body and mental health, but you’re getting paid well. It’s hard to end. There are perfect perks as well, right?

Tanika: Sure! You can afford to go on vacation, but you need a vacation from your vacation.

Doria: Totally.

Tanika: Well, I had a much more dramatic way of describing it. I called it the “fabulous life of the modern-day slave.” That’s really what I felt. It would have been fine if we all had that ideology. In television, you’ve got to get the answer. It was a lot of competition to be exclusive on something that they already heard about from JLo on her Facebook. It was silly.

Doria: I’ve only seen Oprah in person once in my life. I was an assistant at Good Housekeeping at the very beginning of my career. She was walking through the Good Housekeeping Institute with Tom Hanks. I was sitting at my desk and I was like, “Oh my God!” She exuded confidence. I was curious, what were those three minutes like with her?

Tanika: Well, we were at the museum for — God, what was it? It was a really dark topic — a slave museum or something depressing.

Doria: Right.

Tanika: She was there in Kentucky opening it. She grabbed my hand. She had never seen me before in her life. My heart was beating really fast and just that holding of my hand made me feel like everything was going to be okay. That was when I knew I was in the right industry.

Doria: Yes.

Tanika: We can be scared all we want, but something kicks in when you’re mid-flight in the air waiting for that parachute to pull out. You get brave and go on autopilot. You do what you know you can do. I was able to have that experience with Oprah holding my hand like the second week of that job. It was everything to me. It made me know I was in the right place. It validated the very little experience that I had. It was almost like she was holding my hand, saying “You got this.” It was special.

Doria: Oh, I can only imagine. I wish my second week on the job was like that. What is the most memorable experience you had on the red carpet?

Tanika: Oh, it’s not memorable for a good reason. We were at the Grammys. I can’t remember what year this is but we get word, while we’re on the red carpet, ready for people to walk down that there was an altercation between Chris Brown and Rihanna. We had never experienced anything like that while we were waiting for [them]. That was awkward and strange. 

Doria: Yeah.

Tanika: Unfortunately, in these circumstances, there’s no grace because television shows need to make their audience want to hear what they have to say. I was like, “Don’t ask it.” Of course, the producers ask everyone, “As a matter of fact, when you go to that event with Halle Berry, could you ask her too? There are rumors she may have suffered something similar. We don’t have any proof, but we violate her space, too.”

Doria: Right.

Tanika: It was those things that lacked humanity for me — that isn’t in alignment with who I am.

WOC Representation in Hollywood

Doria: Oh, I completely understand that. I want to get to your podcast, but I wanted to ask, one of the big issues has been the lack of representation of people of color in Hollywood. Do you feel that there has been progress made or a long way to go or both?

Tanika: I think there’s a lot of optical progress made. The optics were changed.

Doria: I totally know what you mean.

Tanika: Yeah, as I always say, this is territory that none of us have tread down before. This is new for all of us. It’s new for us who identify as African-American or Black. There’s so much space for those conversations now, whereas before they were just shut down. You were othered, and nobody wanted to talk about it. I think Hollywood is in a very unique space. It’s the only industry where you can request, “We want a Black girl that’s kind of hood, maybe doesn’t speak very good English, and is uneducated.” They can actually request that.

Doria: Right.

Tanika: Then, what actors have to do is oblige the casting call. That’s pretty inappropriate when you think about it, right?

Doria: Yeah!

Tanika: That’s kind of baked in the sauce of Hollywood. We’re a culture where we hug our coworkers, as well. It’s weird. There are a lot of boundaries that are blurry in Hollywood. As far as representation, my biggest issue at the show I was at, was we did cover people of different backgrounds. They were the same six people all the time as if only six African-Americans were worthy. Oprah, Will, Denzel, Halle, Beyoncé, and Jamie Foxx — that was it. I remember having to fight to get Taraji P. Henson on. This is before she kind of blew up. It was after the Oscars. After she had done The Curious Case of Benjamin Button with Brad Pitt, they still weren’t interested. She wasn’t big enough. She hadn’t crossed over in their minds. My whole argument was, “We have to understand who’s coming next and become friends with them so that when they do blow up, they know that we were there before the hoopla.”

Doria: Yes, exactly. They couldn’t embrace it?

Tanika: No.

Doria: Well, their loss.

Tanika: Yeah.

​​Women in Hollywood

Doria: Being a woman in that community, how was that?

Tanika: It’s a sexist community. I’m not going to say it’s only from men. Women are guilty too. That’s the culture. Whenever you go to work, there are hugs and kisses with cameramen. It’s blurry and confusing. There are inappropriate jokes from the boss, who’s female. 

I had a female boss. She ran that show like she had a schlong that hit her kneecap [and] acted accordingly. She was more of a man than anybody else. [She] was unaccepting of women’s stuff. I remember her being pissed at the host at the time. [The host] was pregnant and my boss was playing around, took a knife, and put it toward her belly because she didn’t want her pregnant. She was very open about it. She did not want her pregnant because that was going to mean she had to take time off. It was disgusting. That woman had no kids, so she had no empathy. There were so many inappropriate things.

Everyone was just like, “That’s the culture we live in.” Everybody in Hollywood knew the kind of aggression that was happening at the show I was on, but nobody did anything, right? It’s really interesting how Hollywood places like corporations work, where they know what’s happening. We’re watching it play out right now.

One guy — they actually wanted to suspend them, initially — was caught molesting boys or something. Everybody knew, but they wanted to put that under the carpet and go, “They need to be suspended.” It happens all the time. Only when something hits the breaking point do people go, “Oh, now we got to clean things up.” It’s a messy world in Hollywood. You see a lot of glam [and] pretty people, but there’s a lot of crap underneath the surface.

Doria: Oh, it sounds that way. You’ve made me so grateful.

Tanika: I hope I didn’t burst anybody’s bubbles. They make beautiful products, but there’s a lot of swarmy shit underneath the surface if I can say that.

Doria: Yeah, and if you’re an authentic person, it just doesn’t work.

Tanika: It was hard for me.

Doria: Yeah, you got to swallow it. I also understand being in one’s 20s and being kind of seduced by the whole thing.

Tanika: Oh, yeah. I mean I wanted to be an actress. That was initially my goal. I acted for a little bit and I was like, “No, that’s not it. What can I do?” 

I remember going on like a six-month sabbatical where I didn’t speak to anybody. I don’t have a problem spending time alone. It’s my favorite time with myself. I had a lot of conversations with God. I think I’ve learned that all of us should ask God, the universe, or whatever you pray to, “Am I still on the right path?” I think we get caught up with inertia and we’re like, “It’s worked before, it should work now.” Every day is different. Every day is an opportunity to start new. If you don’t check in, how will you know if you’re still on the right path? I think people think there’s only one purpose that they’re born with and it’s not true. There might be some detour that then takes you to your destiny and you have to be willing to embrace it all.

Doria: Yes, I think that’s so true, particularly when you look at someone’s life in reverse and the things that happened to them to get them to where they were.

Tanika: Yes.

Doria: I mean, obviously there were choices along the way.
Tanika: Mm-hmm.

Pivoting in Life and Career

Doria: I would love to go into your pivot now. You had a career and obviously were very successful at it. It had a few pros and a lot of cons. You became pregnant. I hope that I have the sequence of events right, tell me if I’m off.

Tanika: I’ll break it down. I know it’s confusing because I was at Extra from 2004 to 2009. Then, I left for eight years. I made a very bold decision. I’ll never forget that same woman when I said, “I’m sick of this environment. I’m sick of the culture here. It’s not my jam. I’m willing to throw that money out to find my peace.” She goes, “What?! You want to host the show with Mario?” I remember going, that wasn’t even enough of a pull.

Doria: Yes.

Tanika: Yes, I deserve to host with Mario since he was my co-host initially. I made him look good, so they started to love him.

Doria: Right.

Tanika: I needed to free myself. My freedom and peace of mind was more important. I left for eight years. I worked with HGTV and a bunch of brands. Then, I had a baby in 2014 and was happy. Here’s the thing about social media that’s interesting — you put your authentic self out there. Some people put out their fake selves, but I’m very much in line with my authentic self.

Doria: Yeah.

Tanika: My old job was stalking me and saw all my joy and wanted a piece of it again. [They] brought me back from 2017 to 2019. That means my child was 3 when I started back. I was now the host with Mario Lopez. See how everything came right back to the full circle?

Doria: It’s often true, I think in almost any career, that you have to leave to be appreciated and come back. Isn’t that the truth?

Tanika: It so is! Please people listen to that! They will not respect you if you stay. They keep sort of saying, “Well, you’re going to have to take a pay cut and then work longer hours. We’re going to take this vacation away.” If you stay, you’re done. They will now consider you putty and they can do whatever they want with you.

Doria: Yes.

Tanika: What I knew to be true was happiness and peace. I choose peace every single time. When they came back to me in 2017, I had to think about it like, “What are you going to do for me? Is it worth it? The culture’s going to have to change. You’re not going to call me at 5:45 p.m. and say ‘Rush across town to a premiere.’ I have a child. You need to organize around my schedule. I’m not going to be losing sleep and feeling crazy because of disorganization.” I felt it was the moment in time that God was like, “Now you can do it the right way on your terms.”

Doria: Did they listen?

Tanika: Yeah, they had to. That was what I negotiated for that second go-round — and kudos to them. They stuck to it. When they called me at 5:45 pm [and] I'm like, “Sorry, I can’t.” They had to go another route. It’s probably the reason why they weren’t happy about it, but it is what it is.

Doria: Yeah, it is what it is.

Starting a Media Company

Doria: What inspired your pivot to leave and go into your own media company and podcasting?

Tanika: Yeah, overall, I feel like I’ve done every red carpet. Red carpets were no longer enjoyable. They were burdens because of the culture of standing on the red carpet. You never have enough space. They were like sardines in a can. It makes more hysteria. It was exhausting. I was like, “God, how long am I going to do this? Am I going to meet anybody new and interesting?” On top of that, another thing that became less appealing was fewer real stars and more reality stars.

Doria: Oh, yeah.

Tanika: I got into the business to connect with the Brad Pitts and Angelinas — people who have actual talent. That’s who I want to connect with, people who are excellent.

Doria: Yeah, I swear I watch the red carpet sometimes and I don’t know who half the people even are. I’m like, “Who are you?!”

Tanika: Exactly, I felt the same way. Like, what are we doing?

Doria: Yeah.

Tanika: We are dumbing down this brand. We don’t need to speak to the motorcycle guy who’s spitting on his mom’s face on that reality show — who cares?!

Doria: Exactly!

Transitioning to Motherhood

Doria: Motherhood transitioned you. How has motherhood impacted your life and your career?

Tanika: Oh, motherhood is a beast, right?

Doria: A big one, I know.

Tanika: I think the reason why I had to create Mamaste with Tanika Ray is because I wanted that narrative to be out there. Somewhere, some person had to say, “Oh my God, it sucks sometimes! It’s okay!” It’s a huge beast. Now that I’ve had time to think about it, I’m like, “Why are women tasked with this huge unpaid job by themselves?”

Doria: Right? Yes. Ugh!

Tanika: Unpaid, why is that? Oh, that’s right, the patriarchy. They struck again. What a brilliant thing they created here that women are suited for so they get that job. We’ll go out, make the money, and have freedom. It’s insane when you think about it. 

Doria: It is.

Tanika: I refuse to believe that God put babies on earth for only mothers to take care of.

Doria: I agree.

Tanika: I feel like I’m a single woman with a child. I have my own stuff, right? Her father lives seven minutes away. He picks her up every morning and takes her to school. That’s our arrangement. I would be pissed if I was married to the love of my life and I still had all the jobs and parenting. That’s cause for divorce right there.

Doria: Right. Then, what I tend to see happening is, when a man then does something, it’s like, “Oh, thank you so much.” It’s like, “Come on, man, really?!”

Tanika: Yes, like when they babysit their own children. Yeah, the “Oh, I’ll watch the kids.” Well, you are going to watch the kids because that’s your job, too.

Doria: Is your co-parenting relationship a good one?

Tanika: It’s gone through a lot of different chapters. It’s hard. Nothing’s worse than raising a child with somebody you don’t want to have a relationship with. For some of us, that’s the reality. 

This co-parenting space is new. It’s unchartered territory. We’re all trying to figure out how to best co-parent. For me, it’s best in our very untraditional family. For me to be the boss, delegate, [and] give people roles, that’s how we work best. I see the full picture. It seems like he only sees his life and what he needs to do because that’s the patriarchy. Again, men don’t have to worry about anybody but themselves. I stepped in, I realized my piece came with delegating and giving him a full schedule. “I need you to do this, and you need to buy her this. You need to go and take her here.” He follows directions well, so we’re much better.

Doria: Good. I’m glad he follows directions well.

Tanika: Yes, he does.

Doria: It’s important.

Tanika: One of his greatest gifts is he can follow an itinerary. He may not do it well. He may feed her donuts, pancakes, and ice cream all day, but at least she’s fed.

Doria: At least he’s involved in parenting and has an interest in his child.

Tanika: Yes, he loves his child. He may not know how to connect with her. I think it’s hard for men. He overcompensates by buying her the world. Right now, that’s their relationship, which I think is troubling. I grew up that way.

Working Through Generational Trauma

Tanika: I’m trying to course correct for my child, but it’s super interesting to me. I’m a very introspective person. I’m realizing that children are given to us for us to continue working through our stuff, right? We’re not done. When you have a kid, you’re not perfect. You’ve still got to work on yourself because those babies are going to bring it up. Almost every day you’re like, “Oh, there’s that thing that I thought went away!” Nope, your child brought it right back up.

Doria: Yes, that is so on point. One of the things that my 18-year-old has taught me about is generational trauma. I didn’t even really know I had a rough time growing up. She’s like, “I feel like my sister and I are where the generational trauma, hopefully, ends.” I wondered how you feel about that in your own life. You talk about your mom a little bit.

Tanika: You gave me goosebumps. I’m so excited for you. We talk about generational trauma a lot on Mamaste because that’s where I’m coming from. I never wanted to be a mom because I didn’t have a great mother-daughter relationship growing up. When it happened, I literally was like, “God, this is what you want me to do?” I’m very connected to my universe. I’m like, “Alright, here we go!” I knew stuff would come up, but it’s every single day. For instance, generational trauma is silent. It’s covert [and] sneaky. We don’t even know where it is. We might not even know it exists until some altercation with your child, right?

Doria: Right.

Tanika: My daughter, – I realized during her whole life, I would try to go lotion her body. Black people, we love to lotion and moisturize, right? My daughter is always trying to sneak away. She’s scared of me. We had a deep conversation the other day. I was like, “Why are you always pulling? You’re scared of me?” She said, “I don’t know, Mommy. Maybe it’s your stuff.” I was like, “Oh, shit!” 

I heard that your grandmother is born with the essence of you. When your grandmother is 5, you’re in her in some way. What she goes through is coursing through her veins. Then, that’s passed down to your daughter. My daughter pulling away is some deep generational trauma we haven’t identified yet.

Doria: Yeah, how deep that like she has the language to even express that. That’s incredible.

Geriatric Pregnancy

Tanika: Let me tell you how unbelievable my daughter is —

Doria: Please!

Tanika: When I got pregnant — please understand, I’m a grown woman. I had a baby at 42, not trying with no complications. Oh, they would put out that G word —

Doria: Geriatric pregnancy? 

Tanika: That one! It’s so disrespectful.

Doria: I know they said that to me. Yeah, it’s like, “Fuck you!”

Tanika: Yeah, it’s so disrespectful, right? We got like Black maternal health stuff in this country, too. Every time they tried to scare me, I was like, “No, she’s fine, stop.” Thank God, I know myself so well.
Doria: Yes!

Raising a Spiritual Child

Tanika: I had this child who is spiritual [and] conscious. I have this child who says things like, “Mommy, I chose you for this lifetime. There were all these moms and you were kind of at the end of the line. I looked at you and I was like, ‘I want her.’” The things that come out of her mouth — I believe it.

Doria: I do too. Wow, I just have to take a moment with that. The visual is incredible.

Tanika: Yeah, I think she’s allowed to be that way. This is what I talk to moms about a lot. 

Doria: Yeah.

Tanika: She’s allowed to be this way because when she tells me those stories, I don’t tell her she’s ridiculous. I don’t tell her those are stories and that sounds crazy. I say, “That is amazing.” I want to keep her connection to the universe as strong as it can for as long as it can be.

Doria: Yes, absolutely.

Tanika: For me, I’m always connected to my inner child. I’m always connected to the little girl that I had to save growing up. That’s always there.

Doria: That’s what’s so hard, I think, about generational trauma is that that little girl learned behaviors that helped her survive.

Tanika: Oh my god, yes!

Doria: How do you unlearn them when they’re no longer appropriate [and] just instinctual?

Tanika: It’s so hard. You’re going to make me cry. You hit it on the head. We’re always saving for me. I know where she lives. She’s in my belly. It’s why I can’t get a six-pack. She lives in that muffin top. She’s so comfy there, which is pretty deep. 
My daughter was 41 weeks before they had to induce. She was comfortable in the space that my inner child lives in. She didn’t want to come out. It’s not a coincidence. There’s some truth there. I had to lean into it and understand that even though it’s scary stuff.

Personal Spiritual Journey

Tanika: I’m grateful that I grew up with Oprah, Marianne Williamson, and Deepak Chopra. When I was about 20, I started to lean into spirituality. I was like, “Now it all makes sense.”

Doria: Yeah.

Tanika: The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success changed my life. I was desperately looking for something that just made sense — not a story, not anything but just common human behavior. That changed my life. I will be the one that changes the generational trauma because I have the bandwidth. Sometimes that’s inconvenient for my family. Sometimes I have to make hard decisions like, I’m going to spend Mother’s Day with my daughter. I’m not coming to the family event. Sometimes that’s hard for people, but those are my boundaries for me.

Mothers and Daughters 

Doria: Yes, I love that. I’m going to think about that this Mother’s Day because I find myself in that situation often and it’s like … yeah, I’ll leave that there.

Tanika: No, I want to hear it!

Doria: Well, I guess what I’m saying is, when you’ve had a complicated relationship with your own mother — for me, I think I’ve gotten to the place of forgiveness. I realized, at some point, that staying angry only hurt me. 

Tanika: Exactly.

Doria: At the same time, I want to spend time with my daughters on days like Mother’s Day, and I don’t necessarily have the bandwidth to. It’s a little complicated, yeah.

Tanika: I get it. If you’re with your mother, then it becomes about her.

Doria: Exactly.

Tanika: Yeah, I get it. 

Doria: Yeah. It’s a tough one.

Tanika: Well, I’ve already announced to my parents that I will not be there.

Doria: Oh, smart.

Tanika: I’m getting in front of it. I don’t want to have a complicated day. I don’t want you to ruin my day. It’s my day, too.

Doria: That’s really smart. Oh my gosh, that’s so powerful. I just need to say that instead of making such a big thing about it in my own mind, right?

Tanika: Yes, free yourself. “By the way, we’re going to be someplace else,” and then send her a card, you know?

Doria: Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you! This has been very helpful.

Tips for a Work-Life Balance

Doria: You obviously have a lot of depth of perception. I wanted you to think about women who listen to this podcast, who may be single mothers, working mothers, or may not be mothers at all. What tips would you give other women who are considering trying to balance their career and their family life?

Tanika: Well, that’s never going to happen.

Doria: Yeah, right!

Tanika: I think it’s like we’re shooting ourselves in the foot thinking that it’s possible.

Doria: I agree.

Tanika: I love this show called Workin’ Moms. Have you seen it?

Doria: I have not. Is it good?

Tanika: It’s in its seventh season, sis. Go binge on Netflix.

Doria: Okay, alright!

Tanika: Catherine Reitman, the daughter of Ivan Reitman, is the writer [and] main star. It’s all about the insanity of trying to balance. It’s never going to happen. What we need to understand is, “Today I’m going to be present here. Tomorrow I may be present there, but let me focus on what I need to do today.” We live in a very interesting time where we don’t ever experience boredom.

Doria: I know God forbid!

Tanika: Boredom is where magic happens.

Doria: Totally.

Tanika: I’m guilty, I’ve over-scheduled my child to a T. She’s got an afterschool activity every single day. She spends all day Saturday at a theater company. It’s constant. Now I’m deciding, “Oh, I’ve done too much. I’m pulling back. You get two activities. On those other days, you get to be bored and find the joy of your own room.” As a single woman with a child — mind you, we went through the pandemic, just the two of us. My daughter is super-hyper obsessed with her mommy [and] a little co-dependent. That’s the nature of being locked down in a global pandemic with just the two of you.

Doria: Yeah, exactly.

Tanika: I’m helping her understand the power of silence [and] her own thoughts. That’s where you can talk to God. Having to really make time alone doing nothing attractive has been the key to my balance. If she can go to her room, I can find some breathing space. Before, I was like, “I’m on the clock.” The second I pick her up, I’m on her timetable; I’ve got to be her assistant, chef, therapist, and there’s no me anymore. That got scary. 

Doria: Exactly, it’s like you’re the Energizer Bunny. I have a few thoughts. Firstly, in my experience, I tried to do it all. What I found was that I could not do everything well. It was at the sacrifice of my own health.

Tanika: Of course!

Doria: That was when I had to start making decisions about what was important to me, similar to you. What am I willing to do, and what am I not willing to do anymore? I think that’s part of the journey that all women who become mothers go through.

Righting the Wrongs

Tanika: Well, I’m going to take it up a notch. I think that’s the journey of women who become mothers who had very complicated relationships with their moms. 

I’m having these conversations with my dad now. All I want to do is right the wrongs of what I experienced through my mother. All I want my daughter to do is have no question that she’s loved. I want her to have no question of her abilities and how beautiful and special she is. All the stuff that I lacked, I want to vomit all over my child. I’ve got to check myself too. All the things that I get her involved in, that may be more for me than her, right?

Doria: Totally. It’s hard to tell the difference sometimes. You’re so right on that. Now that mine are older, 16 and 18, they tell me when I have crossed the line, and boy do they tell you — 

Tanika: Oh, they have no chill at all!

Doria: I really admire that you notice that about yourself because I do that too. I want my daughters to never have to experience neglect. What I’ve also realized is that they’re their own people. I can’t protect them from everything. They may experience those things regardless of everything that I try to do. I have to be okay with that.

Tanika: 1000%. I think because I spent so much time alone in a house where I was the outcast — you spend a lot of time observing and trying to figure things out, putting puzzle pieces together, which is why I never wanted to be a mother because I hadn’t had it figured out yet. It’s almost sad because now I really see where my mom was deficient. I really see it where she gave up or didn’t give a fuck, right? I see it, but that’s okay because that’s her journey. I’ve gotten a lot of peace. 

I was on Red Table Talk last year, being more honest about my relationship with my mom than ever. Crying on that show was a catharsis that absolutely freed me. I had been so ego-bound not to let people see that I was hurt or I had weaknesses. In that moment, talking to Jada, I just let it go. I think facing the fear of looking like a wimp freed me. 

There are so many of us that have to navigate Mother’s Day on tiptoe. There are so many of us that have pain. You go to the card store, local CVS, or Rite Aid, and it’s like a gut punch.

Doria: Well, no card says what I want to say.

Tanika: There’s no card! Nope. All those sappy fucking cards, no, no!

Doria: Exactly.

Tanika: I typically buy a blank card and “Thanks for having me, Happy Mother’s Day.”

Doria: Yeah, it’s honest.

Tanika: That’s who I am. I’m transparent to a fault.

Doria: I admire that greatly because it’s not an easy way to live.

Redefining “Mom”

Doria: Has becoming a mother changed your definition? How has it changed your definition of success, either personally or professionally?

Tanika: Completely. Before this, I was the “career girl” that wanted to do as many things as possible. I set out to prove — not to harp on the mom thing, but that’s been my goal my whole life, to prove her absolutely wrong. I wasn’t “this” enough. I wasn’t “that” enough. My hair’s too “this.” I understand now that’s her own shit. Success for me was just the dollars. It was the prestige. It was, “How many shows can I be on?” I did it back to back to back. At one point, I was on five shows concurrently. Once I healed myself, it makes it now like, “Well, what’s my push to make money? I’m comfortable. What do I really want to do?” Success to me is being able to wake up without feeling like I’m depressed, to be honest.

Doria: Yeah.

Tanika: It’s waking up and knowing that, even if I’m having a gloomy moment, I know how to help myself. I know I need to go to the gym, [have] a smoothie, drink water, do affirmations, meditate — I have tools now. My success is utilizing tools, waking up every day knowing my daughter is loved, and that I’m moving forward in my wildest dreams. I want to connect. I got to get Viola Davis on the podcast. Moving forward with whatever is in my head, that’s success. Being brave enough to do those silly things that are living dormant in your mind and heart. That’s success.

Doria: Yes, love it.

Mamaste

Doria: Where do you see your podcast going?

Tanika: I don’t know, it’s hard for me. I’m not there yet. I’m so good at making other people’s projects amazing. I’m at the point where I’m like, “This is a scary place.” I would have never done this had we not gone through the pandemic.

Doria: Right.

Tanika: The pandemic happened, we’re shut down. Then this thing called Clubhouse happened.

Doria: Oh, that’s nice. 

Tanika: I was in love. I was there all day [and] night. Starting November 2020 through June 2021, I would hold space for conversations for 12 hours with hundreds of people.

Doria: I love that.

Tanika: Especially at the time of George Floyd, I would host rooms on institutionalized racism for 12 hours with everybody coming in saying their piece [and] trying to understand. It was a beautiful model for the potential of this world. Then, they screwed it up by offering people money — you put money in, it just fucks everything up. It connected the world. I grew stronger and was like, “Oh, I have something to say!” Then, that grew into a podcast. 

Now I’m in my first season. It’s like, “Alright, I’ve done the famous people. I’ve said the things I want. Now, let’s bring on therapists and talk about the stuff we’re too scared to talk about.”

Doria: You’re so right. As women, even though I consider myself to be an independent, well-educated woman, I still am battling internalized shame, guilt, all of it —

Tanika: YESSSSSSSSSSSS!

Doria: Oh my goodness! That is something that meditation [and] exercise helps with, but it is a daily journey. I have to say, “I have to.”

Tanika: Yes, that’s what I say all the time. Thank you for saying that. If you don’t work that muscle, it will atrophy.

Doria: Yeah.

Tanika: [To] my baby’s father I used to always say, “You’re eating ice cream!” He’s like, “Well, I worked out last week.” That’s not how it works. If you want to be healthy, every day requires effort or it goes to shit. People need to understand that if you meditated in February, it does not have lasting effects in May. You have to dive in as often as you can. 

I’m one of those people who’s not great at meditation. I actually get very anxious. For me, meditation happens when I’m moving. I love moving meditation: hiking, dancing, and working out. [They’re] such a clear channel to the universe. When my body is distracted, I don’t know what that is, but when I’m cleaning the house, I have full conversations with the universe like they’re standing there.

Doria: I think you should record one of those.

Tanika: Oh, that’s interesting. That’s a good one.

Doria: I would love that.

Tanika: I’ve done a lot of very interesting experimental things on my pod. You know when you’re inspired and you could be driving somewhere? I just turn on my voice notes. I’ve even aired voice notes and then commented on what I was thinking at the time. You never know when a podcast idea is going to pop up.

Doria: That’s right.

Tanika: We’re grown-ass women, you don’t want to forget, so you got to get it on the tape, girl!

Doria: Note to self, I need to use my voice memo more often.

Tanika: Yes! So good.

Doria: Oh, you have been incredible. I want to thank you for coming on [and] being so authentic. Please let SheVentures listeners know where they can find out more about you and your podcast.

Tanika: Thank you! Yes, well I am @tanikaray on all platforms. I’m always in this phase: Where I can pour into moms and say, “No you receive today.” I threw a live event in January, our first Mamaste live event. It was incredible.

Doria: Cool!

Tanika: There was delicious food. There was a sound bath and letting-go ceremony on the beach in front of the ocean. The sun was shining. It was everything. If I can bring more women into a space where we can fill our own cups, that is my most important passion right now. 

You can find me — make sure you subscribe [and] sign up to my newsletters! We’re going to do more Zoom events where we can have a community to vent, scream, love, laugh, and do all the things that women used to do out of the eyesight of men back in the primitive days that fortified us. We need to go back to that. We need each other.

Doria: Yes, we do! I love that. Thank you so much for coming on!

Tanika: Thank you, Doria. I can’t believe we did it! You guys scheduled this like the summer of 2022.

Doria: I’m sorry! We did it, though!

Tanika: I was like, “Well, that’s so far away,” but here we are!

Doria: Here we are! We’re still kicking. No, I’m just kidding.

Tanika: I love it!

Doria: You are amazing!

Tanika: It’s really nice to meet you. Thank you, Doria. I really appreciate you.

Doria: Likewise.